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When Fiends Attack: Are Balors, Pit Fiends and Ultraloths too weak?
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<blockquote data-quote="Helldritch" data-source="post: 7016200" data-attributes="member: 6855114"><p>What is young for you? 13? 15?</p><p>They were in their mid 20s. The DM might have been nearer his 30s than the others. They were not inexperienced. Here is why I had put the "young" qualifier:"I am 46 (near 47) and everything under 40 is young for me". Everything under 20 years of RPG is young... No they were not a bunch of kiddo without any experience. You just assumed that and took it for granted. They were good players and that is why they toasted Strahd the first time.</p><p></p><p>I would never have killed a teenage group just to show off my skills. They were "mature" players but their DM was a bit like you. He was only considering the stat block and not using a monster as a player would. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Unfortunately for you, there are some ways to play a monster like Strahd that are better than the others. Strahd will throw everything he can at the party. He will not fight fair. He will not put himself at risk for the sake of it. He must be forced to do it. Most group that said they easily killed Strahd in my area would've been shut down at my table. I talked with most of their DM and when the discussion was finished, guess what? The DM had played by the stat block only...</p><p></p><p>5ed is a bit of a carebear edition for the players. Min/maxing is quite easy in this edition. On the other hand, it is quite the reverse for the DM as he/she will have to think and prepare a lot more than what we got used to in 4ed. 3.x and PF might seem more "complicated" or "refined" but they're not. In the end you'll see that it's just added math over added math... </p><p></p><p>5ed is a lot more like AD&D where some group were killing gods by the scores while others were struggling with a "simple" Balor. 5ed is versatile enough to let you play gritty grinding or high fantasy where only one man can nearly stop an army by himself.</p><p></p><p>You want to talk the stat block? Ok, let's talk about it. D&D is not a simple stat block game. Try a wargame for that. In wargames everything is balanced. You can't climb a wall unless it is in the rules. A tank is a tank. For any sides. A plane is a plane whatever the player. A klingon D9 will still be a D9 wheter it faces an Enterprise C or an Excelsior class. In a wargame everything is fixed. Not so in D&D. A fighter will not always be like the other fighter. There is bound to be differences. A DM might not favor that type of ennemy while another will play it. If you want a stat block game, go to a wargame like Axis and Allies or Attack wing (both game I really like) or even Monopoly. </p><p></p><p>Defending WoTC does not blind me to the weaknesses of the game. It has some. I do modify some monsters if I want a change of pace and do the 5mwd (which is not very often as I hate the 5mwd. Then a solo monster will have to be adjusted on the way up. You have a group of 6 (Like me, but I have two)? Then you will have to modify a lot more than with a group of 5 or even 3. The game assumes 4 players. Anything higher or lower creates some imbalance just like in any other edition but on a greater scaling. This means more work for the DMs. </p><p></p><p>You want monsters stat block? Create some and share them with us. I will be happy to look at them. I might even use them if the work is inspiring. Again, check Dave2008 post on epic monsters. It is truly epic and will be worth your time.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Helldritch, post: 7016200, member: 6855114"] What is young for you? 13? 15? They were in their mid 20s. The DM might have been nearer his 30s than the others. They were not inexperienced. Here is why I had put the "young" qualifier:"I am 46 (near 47) and everything under 40 is young for me". Everything under 20 years of RPG is young... No they were not a bunch of kiddo without any experience. You just assumed that and took it for granted. They were good players and that is why they toasted Strahd the first time. I would never have killed a teenage group just to show off my skills. They were "mature" players but their DM was a bit like you. He was only considering the stat block and not using a monster as a player would. Unfortunately for you, there are some ways to play a monster like Strahd that are better than the others. Strahd will throw everything he can at the party. He will not fight fair. He will not put himself at risk for the sake of it. He must be forced to do it. Most group that said they easily killed Strahd in my area would've been shut down at my table. I talked with most of their DM and when the discussion was finished, guess what? The DM had played by the stat block only... 5ed is a bit of a carebear edition for the players. Min/maxing is quite easy in this edition. On the other hand, it is quite the reverse for the DM as he/she will have to think and prepare a lot more than what we got used to in 4ed. 3.x and PF might seem more "complicated" or "refined" but they're not. In the end you'll see that it's just added math over added math... 5ed is a lot more like AD&D where some group were killing gods by the scores while others were struggling with a "simple" Balor. 5ed is versatile enough to let you play gritty grinding or high fantasy where only one man can nearly stop an army by himself. You want to talk the stat block? Ok, let's talk about it. D&D is not a simple stat block game. Try a wargame for that. In wargames everything is balanced. You can't climb a wall unless it is in the rules. A tank is a tank. For any sides. A plane is a plane whatever the player. A klingon D9 will still be a D9 wheter it faces an Enterprise C or an Excelsior class. In a wargame everything is fixed. Not so in D&D. A fighter will not always be like the other fighter. There is bound to be differences. A DM might not favor that type of ennemy while another will play it. If you want a stat block game, go to a wargame like Axis and Allies or Attack wing (both game I really like) or even Monopoly. Defending WoTC does not blind me to the weaknesses of the game. It has some. I do modify some monsters if I want a change of pace and do the 5mwd (which is not very often as I hate the 5mwd. Then a solo monster will have to be adjusted on the way up. You have a group of 6 (Like me, but I have two)? Then you will have to modify a lot more than with a group of 5 or even 3. The game assumes 4 players. Anything higher or lower creates some imbalance just like in any other edition but on a greater scaling. This means more work for the DMs. You want monsters stat block? Create some and share them with us. I will be happy to look at them. I might even use them if the work is inspiring. Again, check Dave2008 post on epic monsters. It is truly epic and will be worth your time. [/QUOTE]
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When Fiends Attack: Are Balors, Pit Fiends and Ultraloths too weak?
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