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When Fiends Attack: Are Balors, Pit Fiends and Ultraloths too weak?
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<blockquote data-quote="Brian Clarke" data-source="post: 7189251" data-attributes="member: 6899495"><p>It's very far from obscure. But the editions themselves shift.</p><p></p><p>In the first edition version, the only offensive abilities Acererak had manifested if the players attacked the phantasm or (Idiotically) touched the skull. The text makes clear that these are the only conditions under which Acererak can harm the players, and does not say anything about what happens if the players leave. Because the text does not explicitly say that just walking away is an option, DMs who don't read the text carefully could easily miss either of the two important points. And thus, it's clear that players can even leave with the treasure without immediate consequences provided they keep their cool and don't go on the attack and for gods' sake don't touch the skull. The text makes clear that destroying the skull is very difficult (and if I recall, none of the pre-gen characters have the weapons to do so, and A. does not leave them lying around the lair) but stresses the possibility of defeating it with very creative play. (which is why the option of just leaving is clearly in the spirit of the thing) At this point, the demi-lich was *only* published in this module and thus its weaknesses would be unknown to general gamers.</p><p></p><p>(This is, I would say, part of what makes me a fan of ToH - the entire dungeon is based around teaching players to think and act cautiously, like a bomb squad, and if they do exactly that in the final encounter, they will live. If they lose their nerve and attack, it's all over).</p><p></p><p>But at some point, it became more general knowledge, and the run away strategy became known. Certainly after the publication of the original Monster Manual 2, people could read about Demi-Liches even without playing the module.</p><p></p><p>From Return to the Tomb of Horrors (2e) onwards, there is a shift. I don't have RttToH in front of me, but (spoilers) while the original tomb is not reworked, it does eventually become necessary to face the skull construct in a situation where retreat is not an option and some kind of fight is required. In the 3rd edition and 4th edition versions, the "loophole" has been closed and the skull does not need to wait to attack. But in all of those scenarios, player levels are higher and they can be assumed to have some pre-knowledge, or at least know enough to cast a divination spell.</p><p></p><p>Yawning Portal - let's see...yes, because they've gone back to Gygax's original text for inspiration, it seems to preserve the option of the non-combat resolution - the skull construct activates as a demilich only if touched. It has access to Trap the Soul and Lair actions, but not lair traits. </p><p></p><p>(I don't have the 5e MM. What are the Lair actions for a demi-lich?)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Brian Clarke, post: 7189251, member: 6899495"] It's very far from obscure. But the editions themselves shift. In the first edition version, the only offensive abilities Acererak had manifested if the players attacked the phantasm or (Idiotically) touched the skull. The text makes clear that these are the only conditions under which Acererak can harm the players, and does not say anything about what happens if the players leave. Because the text does not explicitly say that just walking away is an option, DMs who don't read the text carefully could easily miss either of the two important points. And thus, it's clear that players can even leave with the treasure without immediate consequences provided they keep their cool and don't go on the attack and for gods' sake don't touch the skull. The text makes clear that destroying the skull is very difficult (and if I recall, none of the pre-gen characters have the weapons to do so, and A. does not leave them lying around the lair) but stresses the possibility of defeating it with very creative play. (which is why the option of just leaving is clearly in the spirit of the thing) At this point, the demi-lich was *only* published in this module and thus its weaknesses would be unknown to general gamers. (This is, I would say, part of what makes me a fan of ToH - the entire dungeon is based around teaching players to think and act cautiously, like a bomb squad, and if they do exactly that in the final encounter, they will live. If they lose their nerve and attack, it's all over). But at some point, it became more general knowledge, and the run away strategy became known. Certainly after the publication of the original Monster Manual 2, people could read about Demi-Liches even without playing the module. From Return to the Tomb of Horrors (2e) onwards, there is a shift. I don't have RttToH in front of me, but (spoilers) while the original tomb is not reworked, it does eventually become necessary to face the skull construct in a situation where retreat is not an option and some kind of fight is required. In the 3rd edition and 4th edition versions, the "loophole" has been closed and the skull does not need to wait to attack. But in all of those scenarios, player levels are higher and they can be assumed to have some pre-knowledge, or at least know enough to cast a divination spell. Yawning Portal - let's see...yes, because they've gone back to Gygax's original text for inspiration, it seems to preserve the option of the non-combat resolution - the skull construct activates as a demilich only if touched. It has access to Trap the Soul and Lair actions, but not lair traits. (I don't have the 5e MM. What are the Lair actions for a demi-lich?) [/QUOTE]
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When Fiends Attack: Are Balors, Pit Fiends and Ultraloths too weak?
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