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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 3999236" data-attributes="member: 2067">4e has Per-Encounter abilities that you never use up.No other edition has those (with the exception of some 4e-like 3e products).Dungeon Survival being about slow attrition in part, it is also about using up your abilities (and your equpiment, and your hp's, and your other resources). 4e also has 'second wind' mechanics for healing, and it would not be out of line to imagine that 4e has some sort of 'reserve feat' or dragon-shaman or 'reserve point' like healing process that can continually heal up to a certain amount outside of combat. While it hasn't been expressly stated as available, many parallels have been drawn. Likewise, it has been suggested that 4e characters, at low levels, have considerably more than the 'base 12' hp to begin with.No other edition (again, with the exception of those 4e-esque 3e products) has those.Thus, 4e supports this attrition aspect significantly less well than any other edition, where you could run out of spells, and where you could run out of hp much more easily than you appear to be able to in 4e.Again, the point of attrition is that you use stuff up over the long term. 4e obviously has powers that you can never really use up (except temporarily), and hit points can likely be recovered much more easily over the long term.You ignored my point about 'spells designed to directly counter challenges encountered in this style.' Teleport, detect evil, find traps....Create Food and Water is part and parcel of this model. This supports the idea that Dungeon Survival was an important consideration for earlier editions.I was describing 'survival horror.' Because Dungeon Survival games tend to be, well, games, there is definately a payoff for being lucky enough to survive. Note that's not 'mighty enough to win.' But 'lucky enough to survive.' The treasure isn't your reward for defeating your enemies, it's your reward for being alive when you reach the end of the dungeon. Not only that, but much of it is trapped, cursed, actually a dangerous monster in disguise, the property of an even MORE dangerous monster, too heavy to carry out of the ruins, and gone within a week on ale and whores, meaning next week you're back doing the same thing. Survival.Not adventure.</blockquote>

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