Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
When generational differences become apparent
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6852484" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I've read the rules. I'm asking what is expected to guide the GM in making this call.</p><p></p><p>In AD&D, the GM makes the call by combing the rules with the dungeon notes. If the notes describe an outcome (eg an audible noise behind the door; moving the sconce will open the secret door), the GM applies that. Otherwise the rules specify dice rolls to be made for hearing noise behind a door, finding the opening mechanism etc.</p><p></p><p>In Burning Wheel, the GM makes the call by reviewing the stakes of the situation in light of player flags. If nothing salient is at stake, the GM says yes. Otherwise the GM sets a DC based on "objective" in game likelihoods, and the player makes a roll (and there are mechanics functionally comparable to Inspiration that enable the player to manipulate those likelihoods at the metagame level).</p><p></p><p>In Moldvay Basic, under the heading "Dungeon Mastering as a Fine Art", there is a discussion of always giving the players a chance. In this discussion, the assumption seems to be that failure should almost always be uncertain, but that - in deciding this, and therefore in setting chances of success - the GM should have regard to "objective" in game likelihoods. (The example given involves the GM calculating the odds of their being water of sufficient depth at the bottom of a drop over a dungeon precipice that the character might survive it.)</p><p></p><p>What, in 5e, is meant to guide the GM in deciding if their is uncertainty? It seems to me that the game doesn't, in general, presuppose dungeon notes of the sort typical for AD&D. The characterisation mechanics don't go quite as far as a game like BW in establishing flags by which salient stakes can be identified to generate an indie-style approach to saying yes, though it probably woudn't be hard to drift the game in that direction via informal flags. (Plenty of 4e players seem to do something like this.) Is the GM meant to be adjudicating by reference to ingame likelihoods and "objective" ingame physics?</p><p></p><p>If the answer is, <em>the game establishes no such principles, and expects the GM to work them out for him-/herself</em>, that's fine. I'm just asking.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6852484, member: 42582"] I've read the rules. I'm asking what is expected to guide the GM in making this call. In AD&D, the GM makes the call by combing the rules with the dungeon notes. If the notes describe an outcome (eg an audible noise behind the door; moving the sconce will open the secret door), the GM applies that. Otherwise the rules specify dice rolls to be made for hearing noise behind a door, finding the opening mechanism etc. In Burning Wheel, the GM makes the call by reviewing the stakes of the situation in light of player flags. If nothing salient is at stake, the GM says yes. Otherwise the GM sets a DC based on "objective" in game likelihoods, and the player makes a roll (and there are mechanics functionally comparable to Inspiration that enable the player to manipulate those likelihoods at the metagame level). In Moldvay Basic, under the heading "Dungeon Mastering as a Fine Art", there is a discussion of always giving the players a chance. In this discussion, the assumption seems to be that failure should almost always be uncertain, but that - in deciding this, and therefore in setting chances of success - the GM should have regard to "objective" in game likelihoods. (The example given involves the GM calculating the odds of their being water of sufficient depth at the bottom of a drop over a dungeon precipice that the character might survive it.) What, in 5e, is meant to guide the GM in deciding if their is uncertainty? It seems to me that the game doesn't, in general, presuppose dungeon notes of the sort typical for AD&D. The characterisation mechanics don't go quite as far as a game like BW in establishing flags by which salient stakes can be identified to generate an indie-style approach to saying yes, though it probably woudn't be hard to drift the game in that direction via informal flags. (Plenty of 4e players seem to do something like this.) Is the GM meant to be adjudicating by reference to ingame likelihoods and "objective" ingame physics? If the answer is, [I]the game establishes no such principles, and expects the GM to work them out for him-/herself[/I], that's fine. I'm just asking. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
When generational differences become apparent
Top