NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 6852585" data-attributes="member: 45197">Hiya!A bit late to the party, but...LOL! Yeah, me too. When I first started DM'ing two of my current players (they're the "youngins"...they joined about 16 years ago) had that attitude. Every now and then they slip into that Gen Y mindset. Just a few months ago it happened mutliple times during a session. For some reason it really bugged me that night and I kinda 'snapped' at him a bit. He was asking to do that very thing you used as an example; make a Perception roll to notice stuff in the room. I said something like "It's a sort of lounge room. Round table, some chairs, it has a..." ...and he cut me off by rolling the die. I was even more annoyed at being interrupted during a description of the room! *light fuming* Then I saw his die roll. It was low. Like, really low...2 or 3. I think his perception check was maybe 4. He looked at me, a bit stunned...and didn't say a word. I continued... "...small couch right after the table in front of you, it's seat facing you." The player decided to have his character walk in to start searching the couch for loose change.... "Right, well, you step in and suddenly a pair of large, poisonous spiders drop down from the web-strewn rafters above your head! [roll roll roll]. They bite deep for 4 and 4 points; make two DC 12 Con saves." He failed. And died. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> There was much rejoicing. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />The player in question did attempt to make the argument "But I would have noticed rafters covered in big-ass webs!", to which I said "Yeah, I was getting to that but you wanted to make a perception roll. You rolled badly, so obviously your character was completely focused on the couch and what coppery treasure lay within. You got a 4, man! That's pretty oblivious". He couldn't argue, and started rolling up a new character. He hasn't done that since...but we'll see...and here we have one of my original players (roughly 31 years ago). He's a bit of an odd duck. If he doesn't really care one or the other for his character, he's happy to just roll dice and see what turns up. But the more he likes his character, the more he doesn't want to roll. That's how we can all tell if he likes his character or not. When he first starts playing one, he'll be all up about "I draw my sword and wade into the room". After a bit of success with the character, its "How many were in the room? Seven? Well, guys, should I draw my sword? Are we going to attack?". After more success, and the point when we know he likes his character, its reduced to "Ok. I'll wait until someone else goes into the room".He does the same thing with description. "I guess I'll just try to tough it out...is that a Survival roll?" ... vs. ... "I spend two hours gathering up green pine branches. I also make two small fires on a pile of small to medium sized rocks. I dig a shallow area, maybe 6" deep. I take the pine branches, use my fishing net and wire to fasten them together over this shallow area, in a curved way...like a half egg shape. When that's done, I use my shield to shove the coals and rocks into the shallow area and cover it up with sand and dirt. I put more green pine over that, then my bedroll. My shield and backpack sit at the 'corners', to give a bit more protection from the outside wind. That should keep my nice and toasty warm for most of the night at least"... and I get the stink-eye when I still ask for a Survival roll (albeit with a rather large bonus, like +5 and/or Advantage)...but he still doesn't want to roll because he knows he can get low and I'll make up the why's and wherefores of what that result translates to in-game.I guess it's the more he likes his character, the more he wants to treat the game as a "collective story telling system" and less and less like a "collective role-playing game system".My biggest confusion comes with the seemingly "on/off", "yes/no" or otherwise binary mental operation a lot of Gen Y'ers (or folks growing up with that style of game play). I have given other players chances at our game ("try outs", if you will), and have had some rather bizarre reactions. One girl only played one session. Her reason for not wanting to come back was because, basically, "my character can't do anything because there are no Feats, Multiclassing or purchasable magic items...so I'd only be swinging my sword once a round" (she wanted to make a duel-wielding fighter). The system at the time was Dark Dungeons (a retro BECMI/RC clone). In her mind, if she didn't have a Feat that said she could use two swords at the same time, she couldn't. If she didn't have an ability that said she could climb walls, she couldn't. If she didn't have a class feature that gave her access to carving small wooden childrens toys, she couldn't. It was very much "on/off". I was really dumbfounded. She didn't tell me directly...I heard it from one of my other female players. Bottom line for her "I don't like the system because characters can't do anything". <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f635.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt="o_O" title="Er... what?    o_O"  data-smilie="12"data-shortname="o_O" /> I think she was of the opinion that the game would have been nothing more than "A 20' square room. Roll initiative. ... A 30' diameter cave, roll initiative. ... ...A 10' wide, 40' long corridor, roll initiative", with nothing else in the game because "there wasn't anything in the game to 'do' due to lack of 'build choices and rules'". Really, really bizarre IMHO.^_^Paul L. Ming</blockquote>

Verification