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Message: <blockquote data-quote="xigbar" data-source="post: 5844971" data-attributes="member: 6673175">I disagree. I think the very essence of min-maxing is problem solving. The whole point of min-maxing is "well, if we have this problem, how do we solve it?"  Well, a part of the problem is that so many players jump in to games without even a remedial understanding of the rules. People often confuse "competency" with "min-maxing." In all honesty, I don't think run of the mill 20th level characters are actually made for CR20 creatures, as flawed (mentioned below) as the CR system is. DMs should work with players more often to help them understand the game, because if a player knew that they could make their character as possible as the concept they have in their head, they would. Which is where min-maxing and roleplaying can in fact be inclusive.  This, to me, sounds like a DM who isn't as willing to put work in to his game as the players are. If he has passionate players who worked hard on their character, both thematically and mechanically, then he should up the ante on his end as well. Why be so lazy as to send stock and generic enemies against heroes who aren't stock and generic.   Now, I'm not saying that some players aren't just flexing their ego, but the notion that you can't a dedicated player who loves both the personality of his character and how if functions with the rules is preposterous. Maybe it's because I studied game design theory on my spare time, but I think a well functioning set of rules, and well functioning knowledge of them, is a beautiful thing. Why downplay creativity with the rules when you don't downplay creativity with writing and roleplaying?</blockquote>

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