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When modern ethics collide with medieval ethics
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<blockquote data-quote="fanboy2000" data-source="post: 5827559" data-attributes="member: 19998"><p>This, I think, is where things get strange. I want to get talk about something brought up by the response to this your post.</p><p></p><p>Lets say we have a DM who's trying to hue closely to medieval concepts about gender roles and class. One player wants to make a female paladin who was raised on a farm. </p><p></p><p>The problem is that woman weren't allowed to be knights in medieval times. The idea of elevating one to a status that might put them on equal footing with men (or even in charge of them) was unthinkable.</p><p></p><p>But that's not all, Joan of Arc was such a person. She didn't do it for any modern feminist reasons, she wasn't trying to buck the system. She believed she had a special calling to protect her country. She seems to have fulfilled it.</p><p></p><p>What we have is a Reality is Unrealistic problem. The DM is trying to create a world that makes sense using rules that, IRL, weren't always followed. I once asked Jef Lobe at World Con (the only time I was at World Con) when he was on a panel why people always complained about so-and-so acting out of character when people IRL acted out of character all that time and no one calls it that. He response? Real life doesn't have to make sense.</p><p></p><p>There's a flaw in this reasoning, but I want to discuss it in the context of what you said in a follow-up.</p><p></p><p>Background is a funny thing. The same background details can be used to justify two different outcomes. For example, having a strict upbringing can be used to explain a strict PC, or a rebellious one. Rebels exist in many cultures and in many time periods.</p><p></p><p>More to the point, I think this illustrates a reason Ugh the Funny (often Half-Orc) Barbarian exists, even in "serious" campaigns. Such a PCs behavior is easy to explain and it gives the player freedom to act.</p><p></p><p>Well, there were morons in medieval times.</p><p></p><p>More specifically, D&D also draws heavily on fiction, and a such characters are common in fiction. Conan was a total jerk to people in power, even to people with power over him. One story starts off with him <em>kidnapping the princess</em>. If Conan were a PC, his DM would have strangled him Homer Simpson style (and accuse the player of cheating for somehow rolling all 20s before stat adjustments).</p><p></p><p>Also, there's a whole class of fiction where there the hero, someone from "our" world, crosses over into another world and "fixes" it. John Carter, the hero of <em>A Princess of Mars</em> and <em>Gods of Mars</em> (and a bunch of others) is such a hero. So, it's not unsurprising that players may want to play out such a story.</p><p></p><p>Have you thought about posting the settings/worlds online? I'm assuming that you get something out of DMing other than just building the world, but if world building is a big source of you're enjoyment it might be worth exploring communities where that's the main thrust.</p><p></p><p>I mean, that have communities for people who make-up languages. No one seems to expect anyone to learn them. (Except for Esperanto.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="fanboy2000, post: 5827559, member: 19998"] This, I think, is where things get strange. I want to get talk about something brought up by the response to this your post. Lets say we have a DM who's trying to hue closely to medieval concepts about gender roles and class. One player wants to make a female paladin who was raised on a farm. The problem is that woman weren't allowed to be knights in medieval times. The idea of elevating one to a status that might put them on equal footing with men (or even in charge of them) was unthinkable. But that's not all, Joan of Arc was such a person. She didn't do it for any modern feminist reasons, she wasn't trying to buck the system. She believed she had a special calling to protect her country. She seems to have fulfilled it. What we have is a Reality is Unrealistic problem. The DM is trying to create a world that makes sense using rules that, IRL, weren't always followed. I once asked Jef Lobe at World Con (the only time I was at World Con) when he was on a panel why people always complained about so-and-so acting out of character when people IRL acted out of character all that time and no one calls it that. He response? Real life doesn't have to make sense. There's a flaw in this reasoning, but I want to discuss it in the context of what you said in a follow-up. Background is a funny thing. The same background details can be used to justify two different outcomes. For example, having a strict upbringing can be used to explain a strict PC, or a rebellious one. Rebels exist in many cultures and in many time periods. More to the point, I think this illustrates a reason Ugh the Funny (often Half-Orc) Barbarian exists, even in "serious" campaigns. Such a PCs behavior is easy to explain and it gives the player freedom to act. Well, there were morons in medieval times. More specifically, D&D also draws heavily on fiction, and a such characters are common in fiction. Conan was a total jerk to people in power, even to people with power over him. One story starts off with him [i]kidnapping the princess[/i]. If Conan were a PC, his DM would have strangled him Homer Simpson style (and accuse the player of cheating for somehow rolling all 20s before stat adjustments). Also, there's a whole class of fiction where there the hero, someone from "our" world, crosses over into another world and "fixes" it. John Carter, the hero of [i]A Princess of Mars[/i] and [i]Gods of Mars[/i] (and a bunch of others) is such a hero. So, it's not unsurprising that players may want to play out such a story. Have you thought about posting the settings/worlds online? I'm assuming that you get something out of DMing other than just building the world, but if world building is a big source of you're enjoyment it might be worth exploring communities where that's the main thrust. I mean, that have communities for people who make-up languages. No one seems to expect anyone to learn them. (Except for Esperanto.) [/QUOTE]
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