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<blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 5391801" data-attributes="member: 92511">It is odd to argue &quot;realism&quot; in any area of a fantasy game...but magic in particular. That said, I (and pretty much everyone I have played with) have had enough common sense to know when to throw out the RAW in exchange for a RAI as makes..well...&quot;common sense.&quot; Ergo, far as I can see, Stun=no action. NOT &quot;Stun=No action except in the event you have to dodge a fireball.&quot;Also take into account the &quot;RAW&quot; are not, nor have ever been meant to be, set in stone...especially when they contradict the &quot;realism of the game world&quot; (the &quot;verisimilitude&quot; I see used here all of the time) or &quot;common sense.&quot;&nbsp; Pff! That sounds a bit exaggerated/melodramatic. It's not like they're being turned to stone! They're stunned...for a limited period of time. Again, the leap to &quot;save or die&quot; seems...extreme.Besides the fact I don't agree with &quot;save vs. die&quot; rulings either...even in the RAW...with, perhaps the exception of Power Word, Kill. But hey, to your point, if you are helpless and someone hits you the following round...maybe you will die...whether I allow you a reflex save or not. &nbsp;Different scenario (more like the OPs situation). Color spray. ZAP! You fail your save, you're up but dazed...Dazed=&quot;loses next action.&quot; Here comes the fireball...You get a reflex save...how? &quot;Unrealistic&quot; RAW are meant to be amended in play.OTOH, someone who is Prone is thought of to be helpless, yes? I would see no reason that they should lose any type of save (well, as long as they're conscious, I suppose).Hm. Well, that would be one way to play it, I suppose. Be boring as all get out. But I suppose if all you care about is how numbers and crunch and I made this ruling, then sure. Cast Stinking Cloud everywhere you...especially since the lack of a reflex save the following round doesn't necessarily mean the opponent is going down. Wow. That doesn't sound too accusatory, now does it.I'm sure I must be misinterpreting what you mean by this. I'm sure someone wouldn't be bothering to pick a fight on this board with someone they don't know nor have ever played with over a hypothetical DM ruling.Well, no one over the age of 12 anyway.And we'll continue here. If someone insults you, report the post; you do this with the little &quot;!&quot; at the bottom left of every post. You don't insult them back. - PCatHave fun and happy gaming.--Steel Dragons</blockquote>

[QUOTE="steeldragons, post: 5391801, member: 92511"] It is odd to argue "realism" in any area of a fantasy game...but magic in particular. That said, I (and pretty much everyone I have played with) have had enough common sense to know when to throw out the RAW in exchange for a RAI as makes..well..."common sense." Ergo, far as I can see, Stun=no action. NOT "Stun=No action except in the event you have to dodge a fireball." Also take into account the "RAW" are not, nor have ever been meant to be, set in stone...especially when they contradict the "realism of the game world" (the "verisimilitude" I see used here all of the time) or "common sense." Pff! That sounds a bit exaggerated/melodramatic. It's not like they're being turned to stone! They're stunned...for a limited period of time. Again, the leap to "save or die" seems...extreme. Besides the fact I don't agree with "save vs. die" rulings either...even in the RAW...with, perhaps the exception of Power Word, Kill. But hey, to your point, if you are helpless and someone hits you the following round...maybe you will die...whether I allow you a reflex save or not. Different scenario (more like the OPs situation). Color spray. ZAP! You fail your save, you're up but dazed...Dazed="loses next action." Here comes the fireball...You get a reflex save...how? "Unrealistic" RAW are meant to be amended in play. OTOH, someone who is Prone is thought of to be helpless, yes? I would see no reason that they should lose any type of save (well, as long as they're conscious, I suppose). Hm. Well, that would be one way to play it, I suppose. Be boring as all get out. But I suppose if all you care about is how numbers and crunch and I made this ruling, then sure. Cast Stinking Cloud everywhere you...especially since the lack of a reflex save the following round doesn't necessarily mean the opponent is going down. Wow. That doesn't sound too accusatory, now does it. I'm sure I must be misinterpreting what you mean by this. I'm sure someone wouldn't be bothering to pick a fight on this board with someone they don't know nor have ever played with over a hypothetical DM ruling. Well, no one over the age of 12 anyway. [b][color=red]And we'll continue here. If someone insults you, report the post; you do this with the little "!" at the bottom left of every post. You [i]don't[/i] insult them back. - PCat[/color][/b][color=red][/color] Have fun and happy gaming. --Steel Dragons [/QUOTE]

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