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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 2738862" data-attributes="member: 141">There's been some discussion on the boards about Horror campaigns, and one common theme is that there are enemies that the PCs cannot face directly.  I'm not sure how best to implement this.  In standard play the monsters are more or less stationary (though they might be wandering encounters) and they fight the PCs until one side is defeated.  The PCs just go looking for them.  But when the situation is reversed, and the monsters are looking for the PCs and the PCs will be the ones who die if the fight is to the death, how do you give the PCs a realistic chance of being evasive without making it automatic?And in a standard campaign the PCs encounter low level minions early on, and eventually gain enough power to tackle the BBEG.  The stereotype is them working through a dungeon level by level, gaining levels and magic items until they reach the boss monster at the end.  Sometimes the boss monster escapes- sometimes the party might have to make a strategic withdrawal.  But usually it fits this pattern.But what if many of the monsters have a CR too high for the party?  How do you ensure that a TPK doesn't always ensue when this kind of encounter happens? How do you help the party know when to run, so they don't stumble into a TPK?The obvious answer is that the party has to learn when to hide or run.  But the game doesn't really make this practical.  After all, the hide/spot rules don't really work for groups.  Somebody in the monster's group is going to roll a spot/listen check that is higher than someone's hide/move silently check in the PCs group.  Especially since a lot of monsters have max ranks in spot/listen and special abilities like scent or blindsense.  Unless I've been playing it wrong, it is basically impossible for the PCs to hide from the mosnters.  And as for running, well, movement rates usually favor the monsters.  I mean, sure, the party might have a monk or a ranger/barbarian with longstrider, but it will also have a heavily armored dwarf.  Or a halfling or gnome.  So I don't really see how running away will work.And if the PCs can't run, can't hide and can't fight- well, they are going to die.  Which can be fun for the DM, but gets wearisome for the players after awhile.Clearly a different style of play is required both for DMs and for PCs when many enemies will be far beyond the PCs capabilities to defeat directly, but I don't really know how to shift gears into that style of play.Anyone got some pointers?</blockquote>

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