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Message: <blockquote data-quote="RenleyRenfield" data-source="post: 9841355" data-attributes="member: 7044197">Well, in some ways its not.  If you see them as similar or same, then I don't have much more to add.   My point was to merely debunk how milestones are limiting or scripted and whatnot.  we good <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />But I do want to comment on this you said ^  (this is all for me to expound on about me, not a commentary on you in any way).  This is an aside but it is related to player driven because many modern design games which come with tools like milestones and moves - make player driven games succeed so well!It reminds me of when I said "This is just training wheels for the GM or players!"   And until I played the games for a while, saw them in action and saw what they were doing for real (not just over a one or few game stint) - it did feel like "a good GM will just be already doing this."What you  say here is very much how I felt when I first started using things like GM Principles, and playing games with true Success with Complications and game-fiat roll resolution and so on. Except I never really used to play with good GMs.  Most were abusive, authoritative, and demanding in the most petty and limiting ways of "this is my game" or "this is my world" , or "Well that's how I rule the roll".  I still on rare occasion run into a less-than-fun or even not-supportive GM quite often... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" />It is these games like PBTA and Cortex, and tools like Milestones and GM Principles that seem to be the source of the very best GMs.  The most fun I have is almost exclusively now in this systems, these games where the players drive and the GM facilitates.I am sad to admit that I have not had a GM run a fun D&D/Pathfinder/GURPS/BRP game for me in over two decades.... they never are fan of the characters, they never take player driven goals into main plot, they never make rulings that support player narrative...Again, this is just me, and what I have seen that made any GM go from "meh" to "pretty darn good" was many modern design tools that oddly seemed unneeded, but very much were</blockquote>

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