Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
When Players Are Indecisive
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 9081093" data-attributes="member: 20323"><p>I'll offer some observations & suggestions very specific to your situation...</p><p></p><p>The big picture – let's not forget this – is PCs hired/deputized to arrest a connected narcotics-dealing Evil Wizard. When in doubt, scenes should feed back into this. It sounds like <em>part </em>of your issues may be that you haven't fleshed out your clues enough (or possibly that your clues are fixed to very specific locations/individuals that players aren't encountering).</p><p></p><p></p><p>Why did the players attach so much importance to the fire? This seems like an unnecessary red herring. I know players can fixate on odd things, but it seems like the theme was pointing in that direction.</p><p></p><p>Rather than making it a bounce-off point – i.e. "nope, this isn't important" – you can always pivot and either move a clue here (if it makes sense) or improv to seed hints of a clue somewhere else. For example, maybe the fire was caused by someone high on drugs... and that arsonist can be found in a catatonic state, maybe persuaded to mutter some bizarre words that hint at the Evil Wizard.</p><p></p><p></p><p>When players have difficulty digging into the adventure, typically I see 2 roots causes (there are more, but these are the most common) – (1) they're new players who haven't gotten that "anything is possible" / they're players accustomed to linear adventure path style games, or (2) the GM / adventure hasn't provided enough context, clues, and meaningful differentiation of options.</p><p></p><p>For an example of (2), you give them a list of locations – manor, vineyard, shop. Without more information, however, these are effectively describing dungeon doors by color: "the door on the left is purple, the one in the middle is burgundy, and the one one the right is bronze." Without context, these may as well be doors A, B, C. Here's an example of more meaningful differentiation:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The wizard's Manor was recently attacked and a magical ward is in effect that polymorphed the last messenger (bearing spell components) trying to reach the door. This invites questions: Who attacked and why? Is the ward of the wizard's making? How does the wizard come and go / circumvent the ward? Did they need the components cause they are up to a ritual?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">There are cases of drugged wine throughout the city, including otherwise reputable vintages. Strangely, one of the only wines that seems untainted are those made at the wizard's Vineyard. However, several sommeliers & vintners swear that the reputable wines (now drugged) have a citrus acid quality – typical of the wizard's Vineyard – that they didn't have before. This invites questions: Is the wizard using his grapes in the production of the drug? How are the tainted grapes getting from the Vineyard to the other wineries? Is it sabotage or a conspiracy? Is there a way to trace the source of the drug and recall the drugged wines? Is there an imminent delivery that the PCs need to intercept?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Shop is run by a well-known apprentice of the wizard, who has great ambitions and is known to purchase all kinds of questionably sourced magic, especially being fond of spellbooks and new/rare spells. In fact, the apprentice is frustrated that the wizard isn't being forthcoming about teaching certain spells, so the apprentice is looking for ways to circumvent their master & teach themself. He's taken to using the drug himself, but in controlled dosages, to augment his magic. This invites questions: Could we use this as leverage to manipulate the apprentice or cause conflict between apprentice & master? Do the apprentice's drug experiments hint at a potential remedy? Is there some spell we could trade to the apprentice to gain information about the wizard's plans?</li> </ul><p></p><p></p><p>When players are blasé, non-commital, not too interested – one trick is to make it personal. Another trick is to kick in the door. Or do both at once.</p><p></p><p>For example, a messenger arrives with an urgent message that one of their NPC contacts/allies has fallen into a catatonic state (after imbibing the drug).</p><p></p><p></p><p>Let's go back to the big picture – the PCs were hired/deputized to arrest a connected narcotics-dealing Evil Wizard. You've talked about the importance of arresting the wizard. You've talked about the evils of the drug they're dealing. But...</p><p></p><p>...what about the wizard's elite connections? And what might that mean for the PCs' deputization?</p><p></p><p>What I'm driving at is if the wizard has "Friends in high places", now might be a good time to showcase that in a way that creates trouble for the PCs. It doesn't need to be directly targeting them. It might instead be political pressure on their patron or the police force which causes all deputization writs to be suspended – in other words, this is the classic noir trope of "detective taken off the case" (and, of course, having to redouble efforts to thwart villain without the support of the law...or possibly with the law being turned against them).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 9081093, member: 20323"] I'll offer some observations & suggestions very specific to your situation... The big picture – let's not forget this – is PCs hired/deputized to arrest a connected narcotics-dealing Evil Wizard. When in doubt, scenes should feed back into this. It sounds like [I]part [/I]of your issues may be that you haven't fleshed out your clues enough (or possibly that your clues are fixed to very specific locations/individuals that players aren't encountering). Why did the players attach so much importance to the fire? This seems like an unnecessary red herring. I know players can fixate on odd things, but it seems like the theme was pointing in that direction. Rather than making it a bounce-off point – i.e. "nope, this isn't important" – you can always pivot and either move a clue here (if it makes sense) or improv to seed hints of a clue somewhere else. For example, maybe the fire was caused by someone high on drugs... and that arsonist can be found in a catatonic state, maybe persuaded to mutter some bizarre words that hint at the Evil Wizard. When players have difficulty digging into the adventure, typically I see 2 roots causes (there are more, but these are the most common) – (1) they're new players who haven't gotten that "anything is possible" / they're players accustomed to linear adventure path style games, or (2) the GM / adventure hasn't provided enough context, clues, and meaningful differentiation of options. For an example of (2), you give them a list of locations – manor, vineyard, shop. Without more information, however, these are effectively describing dungeon doors by color: "the door on the left is purple, the one in the middle is burgundy, and the one one the right is bronze." Without context, these may as well be doors A, B, C. Here's an example of more meaningful differentiation: [LIST] [*]The wizard's Manor was recently attacked and a magical ward is in effect that polymorphed the last messenger (bearing spell components) trying to reach the door. This invites questions: Who attacked and why? Is the ward of the wizard's making? How does the wizard come and go / circumvent the ward? Did they need the components cause they are up to a ritual? [*]There are cases of drugged wine throughout the city, including otherwise reputable vintages. Strangely, one of the only wines that seems untainted are those made at the wizard's Vineyard. However, several sommeliers & vintners swear that the reputable wines (now drugged) have a citrus acid quality – typical of the wizard's Vineyard – that they didn't have before. This invites questions: Is the wizard using his grapes in the production of the drug? How are the tainted grapes getting from the Vineyard to the other wineries? Is it sabotage or a conspiracy? Is there a way to trace the source of the drug and recall the drugged wines? Is there an imminent delivery that the PCs need to intercept? [*]The Shop is run by a well-known apprentice of the wizard, who has great ambitions and is known to purchase all kinds of questionably sourced magic, especially being fond of spellbooks and new/rare spells. In fact, the apprentice is frustrated that the wizard isn't being forthcoming about teaching certain spells, so the apprentice is looking for ways to circumvent their master & teach themself. He's taken to using the drug himself, but in controlled dosages, to augment his magic. This invites questions: Could we use this as leverage to manipulate the apprentice or cause conflict between apprentice & master? Do the apprentice's drug experiments hint at a potential remedy? Is there some spell we could trade to the apprentice to gain information about the wizard's plans? [/LIST] When players are blasé, non-commital, not too interested – one trick is to make it personal. Another trick is to kick in the door. Or do both at once. For example, a messenger arrives with an urgent message that one of their NPC contacts/allies has fallen into a catatonic state (after imbibing the drug). Let's go back to the big picture – the PCs were hired/deputized to arrest a connected narcotics-dealing Evil Wizard. You've talked about the importance of arresting the wizard. You've talked about the evils of the drug they're dealing. But... ...what about the wizard's elite connections? And what might that mean for the PCs' deputization? What I'm driving at is if the wizard has "Friends in high places", now might be a good time to showcase that in a way that creates trouble for the PCs. It doesn't need to be directly targeting them. It might instead be political pressure on their patron or the police force which causes all deputization writs to be suspended – in other words, this is the classic noir trope of "detective taken off the case" (and, of course, having to redouble efforts to thwart villain without the support of the law...or possibly with the law being turned against them). [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
When Players Are Indecisive
Top