When the climax fails

[Arbanax]

Hi all I'm totally new to the last two versions of DnD and have a family (my kids and maybe my wife) who I'd love to introduce 4e to. Reading the reviews and comments about KOSF has made me realise that a group of novice players are bound to make many mistakes. But to keep the flow of the story going it seems ridiculous to fudge every battle especially the final one - which form what I've read is difficult.

So what would you do with a inexperienced group of players to take them through an adventure like KOSF without making it too easy so that there was no real challenge.

If things went really bad (i.e. got to critical stage in adventure) and you ended up with a TPK how would you let the consequences play out and how would you bring the 'new' players back into the game carrying on where the last players failed???

I'm just trying to work out worst case scenarios before heading in so thanks for the help.

Ab

 

[gizmo33]

When I think back to being about 11 years old and we were learning the game, I recall a number of things that are relevant to your question:

The first is that I don't really think that things can be too easy at the start. If they are new to RPGs in general it might take them a while to figure out what the odds are on any given situation. There are so many detail to absorb with an RPG that I think that even climbing a wall can be a challenge for the players when they first start. Fear of the unknown is useful here. Also, I think rolling the dice in itself can be fun, even if the result would be a foregone conclusion for experienced players.

The second thing is that I killed tons of PCs as an 11 year old DM and the people that played just kept coming back for more. People liked rolling up new characters for the most part, although after some time playing people got attached to certain characters and those deaths were traumatic. Basically, if you want PC death to be part of your game then I think it makes sense to have the possibility there from the beginning. Consider having new PCs return to the game with the same/similar relative strength as the slain character. Otherwise, maybe use an action point system if the existing one for 4E isn't sufficient. Then again nothing establishes the atmosphere of danger in a campaign like a TPK.

 

[JesterOC]

Well if you are really afraid of a TPK. You could do the following.

Give them a religious item from a god that will protect them in time of need. Have an NPC give them the device and say "Keep this with you always, it can save you in time of great need." Then when you think they are about to be hosed, have it speak up, giving them an idea of what they should do, and then cast a spell that will help them with it. You can tailor it to what ever you want; it you want them to run, have it say "Flee, I will hold them off" and a sleep spell is cast on the enemies. Or if you want them to be able to finish the bad guy have it cave the roof in on him etc.

This will become their get out of trouble free card. If they start to abuse it... well it stops working.

A bit of cheese yes, but you said they are beginners so I would think they would appreciate the help despite the cheese.

Hope it helps.

JesterOC

 

[Westwind]

If it's the beginning of a campaign that's one thing, but if it's more of a learn-the-system thing, then I've never had a problem with using the Reset Button. I ran a L5R campaign with a bunch of people used to playing DnD years back and it quickly became clear that I needed to use a reset button until people got comfortable with the rules and the setting and then I had people build character and begin the campaign in earnest. As it turns out, insulting samurai lords shortens your life expectancy dramatically. So does looting corpses. And wearing full armor in another clan's city. Did I mention it's never a good idea to insult a samurai lord? Same thing happened when my entire Shadowrun group (less me--yeah for running away!) ended up in jail on session 1. Lessons learned, we began our shadowy careers from scratch the next week.

 

[Kahoots]

If your new players are up for a practice battle or three, I would suggest that. You could even include monsters that will be in the actual campaign. As it sounds like monster strategy is a major element of 4e, seeing the monsters before it "counts" could help them enough to live beyond the semi-inevitable TPK. This would also help them learn their characters, their powers, and some team strategies.

 

[Festivus]

Why not start of with a training adventure that isn't the Keep on the Shadowfell. Raiders of Oakhurst is what I was planning on using as a training game (just the kobold warrens ending with the dragon, a sure TPK for new players). They will learn tactics, as well as how it feels to lose your character.

 

[Family]

The DM could "fudge" some dice rolls behind his screen, or make less than optimal tactical decisions with the bad guys.

But if a TPK does happen then:

-Have a NPC hermit hiding in the shadows (who has been tailing the evil bad guy waiting for his moment) use a relic that he has that restores everyone or just non-evil people to completely restored/full hp.

-Have a a high CR solo/brute come forth from the void and kill the priest...and then destroy the keep as it emerges and marches towards town, where a new group of PCs try to rally the town's defences against it.

 

[mmadsen]

When I first learned to play D&D as a little kid, I just kept going into the same dungeon and kept getting eaten by the same carnivorous ape. I was happy simply to see which way the dice landed each time.

That might work for your kids. I doubt it'll work for your wife.

As gizmo33 pointed out, it probably can't be too easy for first-time players. I doubt they'll be the least bit disappointed that they get to be the heroes and win, win, win.

 

[Scribble]

when the climax fails... too much funny... brain hurt.

 

[smathis]

Scale down the encounters. For most of the encounters in KotS that means removing one 125xp opponent. Basically, removing one opponent that isn't a minion 80% of the time.

You'll probably want to do this anyway if you have three or four players. Most of the encounters are designed with 5 players in mind. I would suggest scaling the encounters down one extra person (i.e. to three if you have four, to two if you have three) to give the players an opportunity to get their feet wet and get used to the rules.

I'd also play up the roleplaying aspect of it. Let the kids talk to the Lord of Winterhaven and give them stuff to do that makes them integral and important to the setting.

Beyond that, I think you'll find that kids are much better at this than we are. You might have to adjust how you intend to play or run but I think you'll find it's a fish-meet-water sort of thing if you go with the flow and improv a bit.

4e seems (to me) more newbie friendly. Just don't get too bogged down in the rules. They'll learn them in time, if that's their thing.