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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mr Vergee" data-source="post: 2895569" data-attributes="member: 13474">Having just found this thread, I can relate to quite a few of the points raised.Though I do nog agree that min-maxing gets in the way of roleplaying from the players' side at all (at least not in my campaign), it does tend to get in the way of the DM's focus. As a DM you have to have a good understanding of the rules, as has been stated many times before. With the dozens of extra rule books coming out you simply cannot keep up, certainly not if you want to use your preparation time focusing on the story. Preparing is hard enough just doing the latter. From that perspective extra rule books get in the way.With the extra books players get more options and their PCs tend to get (a lot) stronger if players can come up with nifty combinations, which leaves the basic NPCs lacking in power, unless you spend a lot of prep time bringing them up to speed. This requires you to sacrifice a lot of time studying and rereading all the extra rule books which you could have used studying the adventure more, fleshing out NPC characters, motives, plots ...Of course, a DM could forbid the use of all the extra material, but that is not an option in my game. We have played together for such a long time that every decision we make is a group decision. Some of my players are really into the extra books, which makes them really eager to use the material, and I do mean REALLY EAGER. Try making a 'group decision' that excludes these books then. It won't work. And I do want to continue playing with these guys because they are great people, good friends and excellent role-players.Then there is another point I woul like to address. Some people claim that min-maxing is human nature. It might be in game land, but in real life it is anything but. I am a teahcer and I can tell you that none of my students, not even the best, are maxing out their talents. As a human you want a broad range of skills up to a level that allows you to function adequately in the/your world. Having a broad skill range is more important than being superspecialised in just one thing. I mean, everybody wants to know how to drive, but we don't have to be top racers; we all want to be able to communicate on a decent level, but we're not learning the dictionary by heart. If min-maxing was human nature, you probably wouldn't be reading this right now, but you would be training some skill that would allow you to get ahead in life.</blockquote>

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