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<blockquote data-quote="RFisher" data-source="post: 2898244" data-attributes="member: 3608">Yeah. There was definately some of that in OAD&amp;D. &amp; there were games like TFT, Traveller's Striker, &amp;c. that took that route before 3e did. Indeed, Gurps advanced combat with all the options is arguably a much worse &quot;offender&quot; in this regard.&amp; don't get me wrong. I can enjoy those games.&amp; it is a fuzzy distinction at best....must...resist...ranting...about...TWF...being...broken...in...every...edition...(^_^)The thing for me is that you don't really need anything much beyond being able to move &amp; make an attack. These subtactical options that some games have give you the illusion of &quot;more tactical choices&quot;, but it really means the player has to make decisions that should be represented by his character's skill instead. They should be below the game's level of abstraction. The players--IMHO--should focus on high level concerns.Which you can do in 3e, but the players--or DMs!--who haven't mastered the subtactical parts of the system can be at a severe disadvantage.Plus, it's easy for novice players of older editions to fall into the trap of just exchanging &quot;to hit&quot; rolls until somebody runs out of hp. Not everyone automatically realizes maneuvering, concentrating/distributing attacks, strategic retreat, choosing the battlefield, &amp;c., &amp;c. can help the party ensure that the monsters run out of hp first.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="RFisher, post: 2898244, member: 3608"] Yeah. There was definately some of that in OAD&D. & there were games like TFT, Traveller's Striker, &c. that took that route before 3e did. Indeed, Gurps advanced combat with all the options is arguably a much worse "offender" in this regard. & don't get me wrong. I can enjoy those games. & it [i]is[/i] a fuzzy distinction at best. ...must...resist...ranting...about...TWF...being...broken...in...[i]every[/i]...edition... (^_^) The thing for me is that you don't really need anything much beyond being able to move & make an attack. These subtactical options that some games have give you the illusion of "more tactical choices", but it really means the player has to make decisions that should be represented by his character's skill instead. They should be below the game's level of abstraction. The players--IMHO--should focus on high level concerns. Which you can do in 3e, but the players--or DMs!--who haven't mastered the subtactical parts of the system can be at a severe disadvantage. Plus, it's easy for novice players of older editions to fall into the trap of just exchanging "to hit" rolls until somebody runs out of hp. Not everyone automatically realizes maneuvering, concentrating/distributing attacks, strategic retreat, choosing the battlefield, &c., &c. can help the party ensure that the monsters run out of hp first. [/QUOTE]

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