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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 3475650" data-attributes="member: 3146">To build on firelance's post, the general rule is:Do I have a full attack action? I want to flurry.Do I only have a standard attack? I can't flurry.However, that doesn't consider haste effects or stunning fist/ other single attack effects. Haste makes a significant change in the effect of a flurry.need a 20: .05+.05 or .05+.05+.05= flurryneed a 19: .10+.10 1% chance of two hits, 18% chance of one hit, 81% chance of no hits, or .05+.05+.05: 85.7% chance of no hits, .0125% chance of 3 hits.=don't flurryneed an 18: .15+.15: 72.5% chance no hits, 2.25% chance of 2 hits; vs. .05+.05+.05=85.7% chance of no hits, .0125% chance of 3 hitsNeed a 17: .2+.2=64% chance of no hits, 4% chance of 2 hits, 22% chance of 1 hit; .1+.1+.1 72.9% chance of no hits, .1% chance of 3 hits=don't flurryNeed a 16: .25+.25=56.25 % chance of no hits, 6.25% chance of 2 hits, 37.% chance of one hit; .15+.15+.15=61% chance of no hits, 0.3375% chance of 3 hitsNeed a 15: .3+.3=49% chance of no hits, 9% chance of two hits, 42% chance of one hit; vs. .2+.2+.2=48.8% chance of no hits, 0.8% chance of w hits.Need a 14: .35+.35=42.5% chance of no hits and 12.5% chance of 2 hits vs. .25+.25+.25=42.18% chance of no hitsNeed a 13: .4+.4= 36% chance of no hits, 16% chance of 2 hits vs. .3+.3+.3=34.3% chance of no hits, 2.7% chance of 3 hitsNeed a 12: .45+.45 = 30.25% chance of no hits, 20.25% chance of 2 hits vs .35+.35+.35=27.46% chance of no hits, 4.28% chance of 3 hits.Need an 11: 25% chance of no hits, 25% chance of 2 hits; vs  21.6% chance of no hits, 6.4% chance of 3 hitsAs you can see, if you need a 16, 17, 18, or 19, to hit and are hasted, flurrying is a bad idea in terms of average damage. If you need a 20, it's always good. Until you need an 11 or 12 to hit, the difference between flurrying and not flurrying isn't that large when hasted. If there is an important reason that you need one particular attack to hit (stunning fist, for instance), then flurrying is a bad idea. Where the math gets more complex and I'm not quite certain whether flurrying is a good idea or not is when you think you need to hit at least two attacks. Average damage per round (excluding crits) should pull even when you need a 15 to hit, but the distribution of the average is different and flurrying gives you a (very slightly) greater chance to inflict at least some damage and a very marginal chance to inflict significantly more damage at some cost to the likelihood of inflicting two hits.So, the general rule should be (and I think this applies to rapid shot too:Always flurry or rapid shot when you're not hasted--except in the unlikely event that you need an 18 to hit.If you are hasted, only flurry or rapid shot when you will hit A. only on a 20 or B. on a 15 or lower. Even if you will hit on an 11+, consider whether you have a particular attack that you want to hit (stunning fist, bane arrow, etc) and whether it is more important to hit at least once or to hit twice. If you need a particular attack to hit or it is more important to hit twice than to hit at least once, don't flurry/rapid shot.Of course, I just realized that those calculations are for 3.5 haste or a 3.0 speed weapon. With 3.0 haste, you use the extra standard action to attack once, making any special attacks (such as stunning fist) and THEN you flurry as a full round action. That way you get the haste attack without the flurry penalties.</blockquote>

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