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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9336103" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Then why do the players know about it? Seriously. If it's literally people talking about the products of some other place, you'd think there would be something, ANYTHING, about what makes it in any way different.And I dislike such coy &quot;oooh, better hope this is real or else you've just wasted a whole bunch of time so you'll feel obligated to do something else there~!&quot; nonsense. Don't be coy. It's not productive. If you have an adventure hook someplace, actually give the players a concrete reason to consider going there. This pretense of making it really their choice is just that, a pretense.Forcing people to make decisions with no information, when that information should be reasonably available, is not kosher. The DM in that case is being manipulative, and I really don't like being manipulated. Most people don't.In the given example, the DM already knows what the armor is and does (it was, after all, explicitly calling out Matt Mercer's style of DMing.) There is no possibility of this in the given context, which is what I replied to. If it was literally &quot;ANY reference in ANY form EVER,&quot; then obviously that's quite a bit different! We were talking very specifically about an armor that already exists, that the DM knows all of the stats for, and which the DM has specifically informed the players that it exists, but is, for whatever reason, adamantly refusing to say anything at all about what it does. I consider that behavior at the very least worthy of some suspicion on the player's part.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9336103, member: 6790260"] Then why do the players know about it? Seriously. If it's literally [I]people talking about the products of some other place[/I], you'd think there would be something, ANYTHING, about what makes it in any way different. And I dislike such coy "oooh, better hope this is real or else you've just wasted a whole bunch of time so you'll feel [I]obligated[/I] to do something else there~!" nonsense. Don't be coy. It's not productive. If you have an adventure hook someplace, actually give the players a concrete reason to consider going there. This pretense of making it [I]really[/I] their choice is just that, a pretense. Forcing people to make decisions with no information, when that information should be reasonably available, is not kosher. The DM in that case is being manipulative, and I [I]really[/I] don't like being manipulated. Most people don't. In the given example, the DM [I]already knows[/I] what the armor is and does (it was, after all, explicitly calling out Matt Mercer's style of DMing.) There is no possibility of this in the given context, which is what I replied to. If it was literally "ANY reference in ANY form EVER," then obviously that's quite a bit different! We were talking very specifically about an armor that already exists, that the DM knows all of the stats for, and which the DM has specifically informed the players that it exists, but is, for whatever reason, adamantly refusing to say anything at all about what it does. I consider that behavior at the very least worthy of some suspicion on the player's part. [/QUOTE]

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