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<blockquote data-quote="bgbarcus" data-source="post: 6776198" data-attributes="member: 6784891">The 5e rules should have eliminated the use of the word initiative and replaced it with turn order.It seems to me that most of the confusion around this topic is the expectations left over from prior editions having a sperate surprise round. With the elimination of the surprise round this would have been a good chance to add clarity by getting rid of initiative and calling it what it really is, the order your character's turn is played.Flamestrike has done an exceptional job of explaining how the first round of combat is started in 5e.&nbsp; As he has repeatedly stressed, the narration can be a key part of understanding the mechanics of initiating combat with and without surprise involved.The only thing missing in those narrations is whether Stealth vs. Perception rolls were used.&nbsp; The DM should use the rolls in any potential surprise situation.&nbsp; Otherwise, characters that have spent resources (e.g., Alert feat) to become extra stealthy or perceptive feel as if they've wasted those resources.Applying surprise individually and using the 5e rules for the opening round of combat works very well. The high damage potential of 5e combatants means a separate surprise round where the whole party is surprised and then goes after the monsters in the turn order is ripe for quickly killing characters before they get any chance to react to the attack.&nbsp; That would make Perception the rough equivalent of a save or die roll.With assassins, they are expected to have high dexterity and often will get the first turn in combat. The extra assassination damage will apply in most surprise cases.&nbsp; I haven't run the numbers but it will likely apply more often than the 1e percentage rolls for assassination.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="bgbarcus, post: 6776198, member: 6784891"] The 5e rules should have eliminated the use of the word initiative and replaced it with turn order. It seems to me that most of the confusion around this topic is the expectations left over from prior editions having a sperate surprise round. With the elimination of the surprise round this would have been a good chance to add clarity by getting rid of initiative and calling it what it really is, the order your character's turn is played. Flamestrike has done an exceptional job of explaining how the first round of combat is started in 5e. As he has repeatedly stressed, the narration can be a key part of understanding the mechanics of initiating combat with and without surprise involved. The only thing missing in those narrations is whether Stealth vs. Perception rolls were used. The DM should use the rolls in any potential surprise situation. Otherwise, characters that have spent resources (e.g., Alert feat) to become extra stealthy or perceptive feel as if they've wasted those resources. Applying surprise individually and using the 5e rules for the opening round of combat works very well. The high damage potential of 5e combatants means a separate surprise round where the whole party is surprised and then goes after the monsters in the turn order is ripe for quickly killing characters before they get any chance to react to the attack. That would make Perception the rough equivalent of a save or die roll. With assassins, they are expected to have high dexterity and often will get the first turn in combat. The extra assassination damage will apply in most surprise cases. I haven't run the numbers but it will likely apply more often than the 1e percentage rolls for assassination. [/QUOTE]

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