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Message: <blockquote data-quote="abirdcall" data-source="post: 7111118" data-attributes="member: 6748898">As it has been previously mentioned rolls are for uncertain outcomes.Players don't declare checks in this edition. They say what they're doing. Then the DM determines the outcome.I have players roll persuasion checks when I am unsure of the response an NPC will make to their attempt to persuade.I will give an example: The characters were confronted by a crooked town captain and his guards. He was determined to fight them and put them in jail. A player asked to roll persuasion. I said, no that's not how it works, let me know what it is that you are doing. So they had a conversation back and forth. Once I felt that the player had been given enough of a chance to have meaningful input I decided that their attempt to persuade the captain against attacking them automatically failed. This is because the party had something he obsessively wanted (and they had found clues to that effect) and wouldn't be persuaded otherwise. Now, if the player had tried to intimidate the captain, that would have been difficult but might have worked. That would have probably been a roll.After the game the player said that they didn't feel like it was a fair adjudication of their character's abilities. They had expertise in persuasion so should be able to declare persuasion checks. We discussed how ability checks in the system work and came to an understanding.My feeling is that in general ability checks shouldn't be made often, but when they are it should be an exciting and pivotal roll.</blockquote>

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