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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Marc17" data-source="post: 9856681" data-attributes="member: 7054182">I'm going to say at 3E. It had a lot of good ideas, but generally I think the execution of game design failed on multiple accounts and a lot of those resulted in the class tier system we saw and how fighters ended up one of the lowest.Take all the classes and make them use the same XP advancement. Great. Much simpler, allows for multi classing, etc. Take the fighter as the general base. Thieves previously took less XP to advance, so they should get something to make up for it, thus add in sneak attack. Wow, actually lets them contribute to a fight. Magic-users took more XP to advance, so they should be nerfed somehow. Well, that wouldn't be fun, so instead lets give them more HP (along with everybody else as previously fighters got the most HP for high CON), more spells with cantrips, while we're at it, let's not make them spend any time to relearn spells, and let's just let them cast their spells instantaneously so they can pretty much never be interrupted. Now to fighters, our base. Keep them pretty much the same, except lets give them penalties to DEX and skill for wearing armor. Because, ...realism? Changing stats and applying the same to everybody means they lose their STR and CON bonuses that they only got previously. Let's make all but one of their save suck where they previously tended to have the best all round saves in the game. I think feats were supposed to make up for a lot of that, but the feats were usually small incremental bonuses, locked into feat chains, not scalable with level (unlike many spells), and just not really well thought out. Also, they're just a big dumb jock, so no need for skills.I'm sure I'm missing some other examples of how fighters got shafted. I think I figured out for fighters and clerics to be equal, there would need to be a feat chain where with each feat the fighter lost one HP permanently but got to case the next level of cleric spells as a cleric of their class level.Skills are sort of another topic all together. Lack of a skill system was one of the major complaints about D&D and causes of people developing their own fantasy heartbreakers (Hello Palladium!). Players want signature abilities, and in 1E, everybody was pretty much differentiated by class and equipment. As with many other things, this was a major house rule system in many people's games. Eventually, Non-weapon Proficiencies got to the point they were good enough. I like and want the 3E skill system, or something like it, but again, I just don't think it was thought out that well. Even as they did it they had to lock down Find Traps(?) so only Rogues could actually fully use it. I think they just came up with a list of skills, some common uses and called it good. No real thought to things like synergy and other bonuses which allowed for some ridonkulous bonuses at times for PCs wanting to exploit such. There were a lot of things that I recognized as exploitable in the 3.0 system that simply disappeared in 3.5.</blockquote>

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