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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
When Was it Decided Fighters Should Suck at Everything but Combat?
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<blockquote data-quote="JohnSnow" data-source="post: 9863425" data-attributes="member: 32164"><p>I disagree with the MMO “Tank, DPS, Healing, Magic” role thing because it literally comes from D&D’s “Core 4.”</p><p></p><p>Fundamentally, other than healing, there’s three things you can do in combat (I’ll tackle healing in a minute).</p><p></p><p>1. You can be a frontline melee combatant.</p><p>2. You can be a skirmisher, either attacking from range, or acting as a highly mobile melee combatant.(*)</p><p>3. You can cast spells.</p><p></p><p>Now, spellcasters can function in a LOT of different ways, including targeted attacks, area attacks, manipulating the battlefield, or weakening adversaries. Which makes their niche complicated.</p><p></p><p>Healing isn’t a particularly interesting thing to do in combat. If a low-level potion can replace your niche, it’s not a very good niche.</p><p></p><p>(*) A reasonable argument could be made that a ranged combatant and a skirmishing melee combatant are two very different roles. I tend not to think so, because part of what happens in a normal fight is that most archers have to use weapons other than their bows at times.</p><p></p><p>I’d draw the Aragorn-Legolas comparison. While Gimli is a frontline fighter, wading into combat with his axes and hacking enemies down, Aragorn generally prefers to fight as more of a skirmisher, even though he does it from melee. He dashes in, makes his kills, and moves on to the next target. While he doesn’t even carry a bow in the books, he has one in the movies and it very much suits his preferred combat style.</p><p></p><p>Legolas, by contrast, is a mostly a <em>ranged</em> skirmisher, shooting his bow from a distance, and fighting in melee (using a single long knife, in the books, and paired ones, in the films) only when necessary.</p><p></p><p>Different fighting styles can be as much a combat niche as DPS, Tank, Healer and Mage.</p><p></p><p>(As an aside, I would note that Clerics got the things needed to be a second-string fighter in early D&D, and “extra fighters” was almost <em>always</em> what was suggested once the primary roles were covered).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JohnSnow, post: 9863425, member: 32164"] I disagree with the MMO “Tank, DPS, Healing, Magic” role thing because it literally comes from D&D’s “Core 4.” Fundamentally, other than healing, there’s three things you can do in combat (I’ll tackle healing in a minute). 1. You can be a frontline melee combatant. 2. You can be a skirmisher, either attacking from range, or acting as a highly mobile melee combatant.(*) 3. You can cast spells. Now, spellcasters can function in a LOT of different ways, including targeted attacks, area attacks, manipulating the battlefield, or weakening adversaries. Which makes their niche complicated. Healing isn’t a particularly interesting thing to do in combat. If a low-level potion can replace your niche, it’s not a very good niche. (*) A reasonable argument could be made that a ranged combatant and a skirmishing melee combatant are two very different roles. I tend not to think so, because part of what happens in a normal fight is that most archers have to use weapons other than their bows at times. I’d draw the Aragorn-Legolas comparison. While Gimli is a frontline fighter, wading into combat with his axes and hacking enemies down, Aragorn generally prefers to fight as more of a skirmisher, even though he does it from melee. He dashes in, makes his kills, and moves on to the next target. While he doesn’t even carry a bow in the books, he has one in the movies and it very much suits his preferred combat style. Legolas, by contrast, is a mostly a [I]ranged[/I] skirmisher, shooting his bow from a distance, and fighting in melee (using a single long knife, in the books, and paired ones, in the films) only when necessary. Different fighting styles can be as much a combat niche as DPS, Tank, Healer and Mage. (As an aside, I would note that Clerics got the things needed to be a second-string fighter in early D&D, and “extra fighters” was almost [I]always[/I] what was suggested once the primary roles were covered). [/QUOTE]
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When Was it Decided Fighters Should Suck at Everything but Combat?
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