When you notice something's not right with the campaign...

[Retreater]

I'm going to scrub this post of all references to a particular game system (other than to say that its root is in the d20 system only to help explain the situation) and to the particular module in question, in an effort to keep people from getting too defensive about sticking up for their favorite edition, company, author, etc.

I'm looking ahead to a module later in the series and noticed impossible to-hit numbers. I have judged the pre-generated characters included with the module and even extrapolated how the characters in my own group are going to fare against several of the upcoming challenges. The fighter will have to roll a 25 to hit the BBEG, even considering buff spells, flanking, and other favorable conditions.

Obviously we're talking about a HIGH level adventure and there may be some surprises in store for this DM (meaning, I may not fully understand how my party will function in 8 levels), but it looks like the culprit is not only the BBEG. Challenges throughout the adventure include all types of resistances, immunities, and powers designed to nerf the abilities of the characters. Not only does this look frustrating, it looks not FUN for the players. It seems almost that the module writer was having a good time by making challenges that are so hard that no one could reasonably defeat them.

So I guess the advice I'm seeking is ...
1) If we're enjoying the adventure so far, should I look to wrap it up on a high note?
2) Should I play through to the bitter end of the module?
3) Should I use even more of my precious free time to re-write the adventure to make the challenges more plausible?

If I am going to end it before the module says it's over, should I let the players know when and why?

I guess the concern is that if I'm not going to be playing all the way through these interconnected adventures, I don't want to foreshadow events that we aren't going to play. I'd like to attach gravitas and meaning to "lesser" encounters to make them feel more meaningful.

Retreater

 

[Doug McCrae]

You could give the PCs more xp and magic items to compensate. Have them encounter the impossible to hit BBEG, say, five levels higher and with a couple more pluses on their weapons than the adventure expects.

Or just make up. Give the fighter a magic item that lets him make an attack as a touch attack 3 times per day or something. I recall using a similar power the last time I played 3e, but I couldn't find it in the Magic Item Compendium. It might've been a warblade manoeuvre from Book of Nine Swords. See these advanced monsters require advanced player tech to deal with em.

PS I'm guessing a Paizo adventure path. Am I right? They're known for being tough.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

If you have already noted the problems, will it be that hard to nerf them? If there is a particular immunity, make sure the party is equipped to counter it by the time they get to that module. "Forget" to use nerfing powers (I'm often guilty of that unintentionally). If the ACs are all near impossible, just cut the ACs by 6 or 7 across the board. Make some notes of what you might adjust in the margin of the module so you will remember them by the time they reach it. Then, if in 8 levels you discover the party actually can hit the ACs in the module you just ignore the notes and move on.

 

[IronWolf]

So I guess the advice I'm seeking is ...
1) If we're enjoying the adventure so far, should I look to wrap it up on a high note?
2) Should I play through to the bitter end of the module?
3) Should I use even more of my precious free time to re-write the adventure to make the challenges more plausible?

If you are enjoying it now and you seem to have spotted some potential pitfalls a long ways out, I think there is plenty of time to tweak things as needed without even consuming all that much time.

It could simply be a matter of placing some appropriately powerful magical weapons for the PCs to use or perhaps removing a special ability of the critter(s) they are to face or coming up with another excuse as to why this critter is suffering some condition even when the PCs meet it. Or even lowering hit points or changing the DR that the critter might have a little bit to fit more with your party's abilities. None of that should take too long to tweak one way or other.

I know you wanted to avoid what system and module this is, but I would also suggest finding the forum here that matches the system, put SPOILER in the title of the thread and ask folks here for help. Or even head to the publisher's board and post there or see if they have a helpful thread. Taking advantage of forums and you can cut down on time to tweak.

PS I'm guessing a Paizo adventure path. Am I right? They're known for being tough.

My suspicion as well!

 

[Lanefan]

I'm looking ahead to a module later in the series and noticed impossible to-hit numbers. I have judged the pre-generated characters included with the module and even extrapolated how the characters in my own group are going to fare against several of the upcoming challenges. The fighter will have to roll a 25 to hit the BBEG, even considering buff spells, flanking, and other favorable conditions.

Obviously we're talking about a HIGH level adventure and there may be some surprises in store for this DM (meaning, I may not fully understand how my party will function in 8 levels),

If you're projecting 8 levels out I congratulate you for your foresight while at the same time suggesting it may be concern over nothing.

8 levels, in any system, is a *lot*; and through no fault of your own I think you're quite right in saying you don't know...and probably can't know...how they'll function at that level.

Also, 8 levels is loads of time for other things to happen; not least of which is character turnover. How can you know (unless you're a DM who never kills characters or allows them to retire) you'll even have the same party by then? And once even one character changes, all your projections pretty much go out the window. Believe me, I know.

but it looks like the culprit is not only the BBEG. Challenges throughout the adventure include all types of resistances, immunities, and powers designed to nerf the abilities of the characters. Not only does this look frustrating, it looks not FUN for the players. It seems almost that the module writer was having a good time by making challenges that are so hard that no one could reasonably defeat them.

Prepare to be surprised on an ongoing basis, then. Adventuring parties are among the most resilient things in the universe. They'll find a way, even if said way involves doing something else for a while in order to power themselves up with extra levels and toys.

I'd say play it out and see what happens, but have a side adventure ready if they get overwhelmed by the main one.

Lanefan

 

[Piratecat]

I'd suggest customizing defenses, hit points and attacks so that the game is fun and challenging. I'd never even mention it to the players, and I'd tweak it encounter by encounter to get the feel you want.

 

[S'mon]

A player once explained to me that it's actually OK to alter monster stats! Since then I edit them to whatever I feel is appropriate.

 

[Boregar]

As others have said, as long as you are all still enjoying the story then its perfectly fine to 'fiddle' with the stats to make the opponents less deadly, or cut out some of their nerfing options altogether.

I like Thornir's suggestion of noting possible changes now but leaving the old info available too, so if your concerns have proven unfounded you can just go with things as they were written.

 

[fireinthedust]

I've been shocked to see my PCs crush monsters reams of levels above them. As mentioned above, PCs are among the most resilient things in the Universe (and yet we don't use them to build cars...). I'd add to that most powerful, as they tend to obliterate everything in their path.

However: are you sure you counted right? What is the level they'll be at in 8 levels? Have you considered all the Feats they'll have for Weapon Focus and modifiers from things like Charge? Did you consider one of them making a Wand of True Strike? If they're levels 13-15, they could have +4 swords; and there's a good chance of high ability modifiers. I'm guessing the module writers are expecting all these to add up.

+4 (or higher) from key stats
+4 from weapons
+15 BAB
+1 (or higher) weapon focus and related
+20 (true strike)

we're talking +20 to hit here without True Strike, and +40 with it.

Granted, True Strike is a bit silly in the general run of things; every encounter would get old real fast. Still, if you're worried about that sort of number for a few powerful major encounters, say they find a wand somewhere and use it. Heck, the BBEG could have given one to some Orc archers, to slow the PCs down right before they meet their foe.

Keep in mind also that PCs can and should consider their own needs when collecting gold. They can craft items they want. That's a huge advantage. And some spells are more than attacking defenses, but changing the field of battle: summon swarm, creating massive amounts of water, grease. This stuff can add up.

 

[dagger]

Only one way to get this resolved: Deck of Many Things