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Message: <blockquote data-quote="toucanbuzz" data-source="post: 8564657" data-attributes="member: 19270">Been doing this for a long time, but inevitably there will come a time when you'll setup a battle that you thought was appropriate and it's simply too much for the PCs to handle. I'm at that moment, between sessions, looking for advice, with what I thought was a deadly, but manageable, boss battle.Setup: PCs are 8th level, a caster-heavy group drained of resources, in a battle with an "atrophied" lich (has some lair and legendary lich abilities, capped as 11th level caster, reduced DCs, no phylactery so it won't stick around if there's a chance it could be destroyed) that had a Shield Guardian hidden nearby siphoning, then regenerating, damage. There's a complicated backstory, but let's stick to the fight part.IF the battle keeps going as-is, it's a TPK. We paused in battle between session, so I have till next weekend to regroup.It Got Out of Control When... The atrophied lich used its Lair tether ability (CON save or take half the damage the lich takes) and the Shield Guardian ability, combined with legendary actions to repeatedly cast Toll the Dead. I felt it's a fair tactic a genius-level bad guy would use, especially since he's been scrying the PCs for weeks now.What the DM did to try and help... Threw in an alu-fiend that wanted out of a deal with the Boss and banked on the PCs being strong. She helped them find and take out the Shield Guardian. She has little to directly affect the Boss.But, it's still too much... The Guardian is now down, but the atrophied lich is still renewing spells each round, doing great on HP, and tethering to the PC wizard. He's been scrying them for weeks now, so I've tailored his strategies to defeat their abilities. The PC fighter is on fumes. The PCs have exhausted their powers trying to keep her afloat.The PCs missed out...  I presumed the PCs would take advantage of several chances to gain power or allies in the dungeon but they whiffed on all. Zero. Nada. Not by bad choices, it just didn't happen.So, damn, what do you do?  I believe now the PCs should have been 9 or 10th level before this battle, my bad on that part. Too late now to correct. It's game on and if I play the Boss intelligently, it knows it's winning and simply has to spam Toll the Dead until everyone is dead. Looking for ways to throw in some (believable) chances for the PCs rather than mercilessly mow them down. Also, on a tangent, may approach the group again about limiting the # of attack cantrips one can cast between short rests. The fighter PC is probably not happy with cantrip spam at the moment...</blockquote>

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