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<blockquote data-quote="Gradine" data-source="post: 5335768" data-attributes="member: 57112">Autohit powers with direct targets (such as Magic Missile) ARE attacks and ARE hits for the purposes of any riders that produce affects on attacks or hits. This is an argument that has long since been put to bed and I'll never understand for the life of me why people still argue it. I mean, I can understand disliking the call and arguing whether it should have been made, but this was a RAW question and it deserves a RAW answer, and that answer is actually quite simple. Magic Missile and other powers of its ilk are attacks and they produce hits.The question about indirect auto-damage has also been put to bed much, much earlier thanks to fighter powers such as Cleave and Rain of Steel. This also includes the aforementioned warden power Tempest Assault. These are not attacks and therefore not hits.Powers with secondary attacks such as Acid Arrow are similarly easy to adjudicate: there's a secondary target, a secondary attack, and hit line right there. That's a pretty easy call; those creatures, if hit, are hit. If all you had was a secondary target and an effect line I could see there being confusion (because then what makes it different from Cleave) but I can't think of any powers off the top of my head that that would apply to. If there were, as a DM I'd probably rule it a hit, answering my own previous paranthetical question with: it's different from Cleave because WotC wrote the power in a way to differentiate it from Cleave and make it more line with Magic Missile, which has been ruled both an attack and a hit.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Gradine, post: 5335768, member: 57112"] Autohit powers with direct targets (such as Magic Missile) ARE attacks and ARE hits for the purposes of any riders that produce affects on attacks or hits. This is an argument that has long since been put to bed and I'll never understand for the life of me why people still argue it. I mean, I can understand disliking the call and arguing whether it should have been made, but this was a RAW question and it deserves a RAW answer, and that answer is actually quite simple. Magic Missile and other powers of its ilk are attacks and they produce hits. The question about [I]indirect[/I] auto-damage has also been put to bed [I]much, much [/I]earlier thanks to fighter powers such as Cleave and Rain of Steel. This also includes the aforementioned warden power Tempest Assault. These are not attacks and therefore not hits. Powers with secondary attacks such as Acid Arrow are similarly easy to adjudicate: there's a secondary target, a secondary attack, and hit line right there. That's a pretty easy call; those creatures, if hit, [I]are [/I]hit. If all you had was a secondary target and an effect line I could see there being confusion (because then what makes it different from Cleave) but I can't think of any powers off the top of my head that that would apply to. If there were, as a DM I'd probably rule it a hit, answering my own previous paranthetical question with: it's different from Cleave because WotC wrote the power in a way to differentiate it from Cleave and make it more line with Magic Missile, which has been ruled both an attack and a hit. [/QUOTE]

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