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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 3102366" data-attributes="member: 3146">This very much depends upon the scale of the battle. On a even a scale of say 5000 troops per side--they actually end up making very little difference--unless you have LOTS of casters capable of using them. I played an event at a con once where our characters were leading a force of soldiers (something like 100-140 1st or 2nd level soldiers per character and six characters on our side versus a few thousand soldiers on the other side including several high level barbarians and at least one very high level cleric). In that battle, teleport and dimension door made no difference whatsoever. Sure, all of our characters could have dimension doored up onto the wall, but alone, faced with several thousand foes, we would have been cut down pretty quickly (when you're rolling 500 attacks, even if you only hit on a twenty, that's still 25 hits including one likely confirmed critical) and that's not even counting the high level foes. (With non-ablative DR granting magic like Righteous Might or Iron Body, it becomes a lot more doable but that's putting a lot of faith in your enemy failing their dispel checks). Quite wisely, we did not dimension door up to the top. (Another interesting thing in that battle was that the low level offensive spells like fireball, flame strike, cometfall, etc were not really any more effective than a unit of fifty archers--except when used against catapults. It was spells like Summon Monster VII (for a huge air elemental), firestorm, sunburst, holy word, and blasphemy that made a difference).On a smaller scale battle--say 100 soldiers or less, a teleport or dimension door is very powerful; on the other hand, a 7th or 8th level character of any class is going to make a big difference in a battle of that size no matter what abilities they have and the dimension door definitely does not make the wall useless. The wall does, however, become useful for dividing the battlefield and controlling line of sight in a rather different way than it is in a non-magical battle.As for create food and water, the answer is simple: Sieges work when:1. Your opponent has more soldiers and refugees than the cleric can feed with his create food and water spells. (A third level spell in few domains, so most likely your 5th level cleric can feed 20 people 1 meal per day--higher level clerics can of course feed more).2. Your opponents' clerics are forced to prep create food and water, leaving them without healing, dispelling, or offensive magics to aid the battle. (In this case, you're not starving them out but rather using the siege to make the eventual assault easier).3. Your opponents rely upon create food and water for their supplies and starve out anyway when you assasinate the cleric--only they starve more quickly because they laid up fewer provisions than they otherwise might have.Clearly, much of this is going to depend upon the power level and magic level of the campaign. However, even in a relatively high magic campaign, that might support dwarven reinforced bunkers more than castles, I think simpler traditional fortifications--the motte and bailey or the Roman fort still have a lot going for them because they offer very significant advantages against a significant portion of the enemies and aren't totally useless against even powerful flying and magical foes. (And, with move earth, wall of stone, etc, they're much easier and less costly to manufacture).</blockquote>

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