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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AngryPurpleCyclops" data-source="post: 4707089" data-attributes="member: 82732">you have 2 # 2's <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  Surprise is one side being aware of the other while the other side is not aware.  Stealth vs Perception in both directions basically. I don't particularly like the rules for surprise in 4e.  Especially for spell casters. The 1 action rule can be very constraining.  can you stand up from behind a rock and fire your bow/spell?  can you 5' step (not a 4e term) into a door and unleash a spell? technically no.  melee types can charge but there's no similar mechanic for most ranged types.  rogues have the move 2 and strike at will.If your init is low gaining surprise can actually hurt you.  If you move with your warlock or wizard to line up an attack, the bad guys might better be able to swarm you before you actually go.  Almost better in many cases for an arcane type to use surprise to delay until the top of the init order so you can move and unload a big spell.  Personally I kind of think you should get a half move followed by one action, to allow for a little shifting in the ranks</blockquote>