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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 2411160" data-attributes="member: 141">I think I have something that might work.In Anger of Angels Sean K Reynolds allows angels (and fiends) to reproduce by sacrificing class levels; one or more angels invests personal energy which is shaped into a new angel of the same type as the parent(s).  Let's call this mechanic (which IMHO needs some fine tuning) the "rite of procreation".  A similar mechanic could be called the "rite of adaptation"- it allows one outsider to acquire the form (species) of another.  The main restriction is that there couldn't be a net improvement to a monster's CR (so it has to sacrifice HD or class levels), but let's leave the mechanics to be worked out later.  No special skill or feat is required to use the rite of procreation, so neither should the rite of adaptation require anything special.  I would say you need a feat to acquire the form of a totally new kind of fiend.  A few of the specifics of the fiend could be specified by the wielder, but a lot would be random, or have its own internal logic (like Quickleaf suggests; an individual's appetite for bloodshed and power might make him grow bloated, etc).  I don't think that the first fallen Astral Deva to become a Nalfeshnee *wanted* to look like an obese ape/boar, but those details were out of the Deva's control.And once an angel becomes a fiend (probably an advanced form of the fiend; double the standard hit dice), it could make other fiends of the same type with the rite of procreation, allow other fallen angels to convert to that type with the rite of adaptation, and so on.Another idea; outsiders can't be raised, but maybe a rite could collect the life energy and reincarnate them as a fiend of lesser CR.  It would require that there be at least one example of that type of fiend already in existence, but would provide a way of making new fiends once you had an exemplar.  If damned souls are considered outsiders, that could be a way of starting them up the chain of being.  Call it the rite of revival.  The rite of revival could have bad side effects; permanent (or centuries long) amnesia, for one.  This allows the flavor of the no-resurrection rule to be retained; revived outsiders are pretty much brand new creatures.  A rite of revival could possibly grab the "wrong" kind of soul energy; a dead pit fiend might be reborn as a moderately advanced ice devil, though he might not remember his previous identity for some time.So in the early days after the Great Revolt, there would be only a few fiends of the kinds listed in the monster manual, representing those fallen angels mad or daring enough to seek to adopt a form more suited to their new home.  The rite of revival, performed many times, reforms those rebel angels who died in the course of the Great Revolt; they appear not as angels, though, but as devils.  To curry favor with their superiors many angels will undergo the rite of adaptation and assume the form their superior has put on.  Some forms suited for particular tasks will be developed; each developer will be the progenitor of a new kind of fiend... or, failing that, would be a unique kind of fiend.And so on.  As time goes on the proportion of true (monster manual) fiends will increase, but there would be no new source of fallen angels, so they would gradually become quite rare.  The form of a new outsider has to be appropriate to the plane (i.e. be originated by a plane-specific feat), and so fallen angels cannot use the rites to make others of the same form; while in Hell they can only make devils. Similarly if any devils were to wander to the Abyss, they would have to develop new forms appropriate to that place; the old rites wouldn't work.  I don't know if the Abyss was colonized by fallen angels at the same time as Hell was, or if it was colonized by devils, or if it was colonized by fallen angels who had been in Hell but were kicked out, or what.  It doesn't matter.  Just that whatever non-demons arrived in the Abyss had to invent demonic forms to use with the rites.I think this is the mechanism I want.  A feat to acquire the form of a new kind of fiend, and three "rites" that allow for an increase in numbers of that fiend; one that makes a brand new fiend, one that changes an existing outsider into that kind of fiend, and one that restores a dead outsider to life as that kind of fiend; procreation, adaptation and revival, respectively.This mechanism allows there to be a finite variety of devils and demons that do not correspond at all closely to the kinds of celestials or to each other, but is consistent with the claim that all devils and demons were once celestials.What do folks think?</blockquote>

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