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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tglassy" data-source="post: 7056608" data-attributes="member: 6855204">Ok, min-maxing = Purposefully taking the minimum score possible in one instance, so you can have a higher score in another.15, 15, 15, 8, 8, 8 is literally the definition of min-maxing.  In point buy, you are not able to go lower than 8, nor higher than 15, so you literally take three minimums and three maximums.  Remember, 10 is an average person.  Which means your guy is stronger, more durable, and wiser than most people around him, and also clumsier, stupider, and uglier as well.  So you have a...wise, clumsy, stupid, durable, ugly, strong guy.  I don't even know how to picture that...Although it basicaly means you're great at combat and useless outside of it.  But you're not going to play that way.  You're going to play like a normal person with these stats.  I've seen very few people actually play their character to their stats.  You didn't make a character, you made an avatar for a video game.  You want to make his class and race fit perfectly for combat, and combat means fighting stat, durability, and magic stat.  The others are "Dumps".  And everyone does it, let's be honest.  But to that extent, I would roll my eyes and call you the same thing.  The dex build is less so, but not by much. If I give a point buy, and I see two or more 8's, that's just the player trying to game the system.  Typically what I do is pick one or two main stats I want to have maxed, get them to 15, then get everything else at least to 10.  Then I take the extra few points and distribute where I think they'd fit the character.  If I really, REALLY need an extra point or two because I think they'd be more charismatic than that, then I might drop one stat to an 8, but it would have to fit the character.  And now we come to the reason I've started using Standard Array.  One really great stat, one almost really great stat, a few pretty good stats, a mediocre stat, and a bad stat.  It makes for a balanced character.  You can still get two 16's pretty easy on that, and only have one stat with a -.  In the end, people put too much stock on the stats, especially the fighting ones.  Yeah, it adds to your attack and damage roll, but only by 1 - 5 points.  5 points of damage is great when you're level 1.  Not so much when you're level 5.  One extra CON point COULD help you, but likely not.  That's the opposite, really, where it gets better as you get higher in level, but at level 1, 1 extra HP isn't going to make or break your character.  To the original point, I don't see making a Warlock/Sorc who can snipe at 1200 feet with Eldridge blast as minmaxing.  I see that as specializing, because there was nothing to minimize.  Same with a monk with a speed of 90.  He specialized all his bonuses on one thing, so he does that one thing very, very well.  Min Maxing is lowering something to the minimum, so you can maximize something else to the maximum, and typically doing that across the board.  Optimizing is different.  Optimizing starts with a character in mind, and then creating the best possible set of stats and abilities to fit that character.  I want to play a drow wizard who was so good at the Drow Wizarding Academy, he grew bored and decided to come to the surface.  He's good at manipulating people, always has a smile on his face, and thinks he's cleverer than everyone, even if it's not true.  So, with point buy, I'd put 14 on Dex and Int, and 13 on Charisma, because his racial bonuses will put those at 16 on Dex and 14 on Charisma, because I see him using his Hand Crossbow proficiency more than attack cantrips, thus freeing my cantrips to have Friends and/or Minor Illusion.  That gives me 8 more points to play with.  I don't see this guy as particularly bad at anything, in fact perhaps it's part of his character that he is usually proficient with anything he tries, so I spend 6 points getting Str, Con and Wis to 10.  Then I have two points left, and I do see him as being rather insightful, so I put them in Wisdom, to up his Perception.  10, 16, 10, 14, 12, 14.  He definitely specializes, but it fits the character.  Now, I could decide he's actually sickly like Raistlin, and drop his Con down to 8, and give two points to...well, it wouldn't help giving it to Int or Cha, cause those two points would only take it to an odd number.  So, two points go to wis, where it'll matter.  So: 10, 16, 8, 14, 14, 14.  This fits my concept of a bratty drow who is good at everything he does, but was never much of a front line type of person, which pushes him to try to manipulate them instead of fight them hand to hand.  Then at some point I'll take Crossbow Expert, and up his Int.  So, I suppose the difference, to me, is "I'm going to make a character.  I want him to be tough, strong and he'll be a cleric, so I need him to be wise.  I guess I'll have to pick between strength or dex, because that's my combat stat.  The other can be dumped, though.  And I don't need Int or Cha."As apposed to: "i see a hulking follower of Tyr, who was so devout in his studies that he has trouble relating to people, and never had time for a formal education." Not that there's anything "Wrong" with min maxing in general.  It just means you're there to play a game, rather than tell a story.  Which, you know, is your prerogative.</blockquote>

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