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<blockquote data-quote="doctorbadwolf" data-source="post: 7065339" data-attributes="member: 6704184">No one in my group min/maxes their scores, yet we always point buy. You are simply incorrect. Point buy allows the player to control what exact character they are playing. IME, point buy does precisely the opposite of what you propose. Rolling stats lead to a lot of &quot;well, I have to put the 15 in Dex, cuz I'm a rogue, and it's my highest roll. Need good con, and decent wisdom for perception, bc no one else is gonna get this traps...so the 13s will have to go there. Looks like my idea of being clever and charismatic will have to wait for another character. Maybe I could switch to primarily ranged, and have a low con? No that just hurts too much. Balls.&quot; Ie, metagamey thinking about stats. Point buy leads to, &quot;ok, he is a tinker-thief, and con artist. I can ignore Strength, but not dump it, because he basically lives on rooftops, con good enough to not die, Dex 14 or higher, Cha has to be decent, and wisdom can't be a penalty, but Expertise can make up the difference if I have to...Int 12 just because a tinkerer and amateur inventer should be smarter than average.&quot; Ie, making stat decisions based on the concept, including making less optimal decisions because the concept is more important. Except in 3.5, where the stats seemed so tight and that they needed to be so high to be useful that it literally felt, for many players, like it wasn't even helpful toward representing the concept to have a 12 in something. I guess I don't feel like I lean more toward one than the other at all, so the whole idea seems strange, to me. Like...I don't even see where any natural tension lies between the two. There is, as far as I can tell, no actual conflict between the two types you proposed. The coexist just fine, and compliment eachother. Id also add, though, that the player that ignores the &quot;game&quot; aspect of the RPG, isn't viewing the game holistically, or as a whole. They are ignoring a significant aspect of the game, just like the proposed &quot;focus on the numbers&quot; guy.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="doctorbadwolf, post: 7065339, member: 6704184"] No one in my group min/maxes their scores, yet we always point buy. You are simply incorrect. Point buy allows the player to control what exact character they are playing. IME, point buy does precisely the opposite of what you propose. Rolling stats lead to a lot of "well, I have to put the 15 in Dex, cuz I'm a rogue, and it's my highest roll. Need good con, and decent wisdom for perception, bc no one else is gonna get this traps...so the 13s will have to go there. Looks like my idea of being clever and charismatic will have to wait for another character. Maybe I could switch to primarily ranged, and have a low con? No that just hurts too much. Balls." Ie, metagamey thinking about stats. Point buy leads to, "ok, he is a tinker-thief, and con artist. I can ignore Strength, but not dump it, because he basically lives on rooftops, con good enough to not die, Dex 14 or higher, Cha has to be decent, and wisdom can't be a penalty, but Expertise can make up the difference if I have to...Int 12 just because a tinkerer and amateur inventer should be smarter than average." Ie, making stat decisions based on the concept, including making less optimal decisions because the concept is more important. Except in 3.5, where the stats seemed so tight and that they needed to be so high to be useful that it literally felt, for many players, like it wasn't even helpful toward representing the concept to have a 12 in something. I guess I don't feel like I lean more toward one than the other [I]at all, [/I]so the whole idea seems strange, to me. Like...I don't even see where any natural tension lies between the two. There is, as far as I can tell, no actual conflict between the two types you proposed. The coexist just fine, and compliment eachother. Id also add, though, that the player that ignores the "game" aspect of the RPG, isn't viewing the game holistically, or as a whole. They are ignoring a significant aspect of the game, just like the proposed "focus on the numbers" guy. [/QUOTE]

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