Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Where does optimizing end and min-maxing begin? And is min-maxing a bad thing?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 7073398" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>Just to turn this conversation back to important things, namely me (;p), I'd point out a couple of more details about our Ravenloft game.</p><p></p><p>Now, just to remind you all, I stated that the party is 8th level and I'm playing a hunter Ranger with a bow. In 8 levels, we have not found a magic bow or magic arrows (although we do have a number of silver ones) and it has been a serious challenge to my character. We have largely worked around the issue by having one of the casters drop a Magic Weapon spell on me when needed, although, that isn't a sure thing. And yes, the rest of the party has magic weapons. </p><p></p><p>Some people have expressed the notion that it's up to the DM to rectify this. He should drop in a magic bow or some arrows or something somewhere along the way.</p><p></p><p>I take a different perspective. This is a problem of my own devising, largely. There are a number of things I could have done to solve this problem on my own. In no particular order:</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Take a level in a caster class and cast my own Magic Weapon spells, at least a few times per day, and still have cantrips to rely on when the bow doesn't work.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Take the Magic Initiate feat and again, cast my own Magic Weapons spells.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Burn one of my ASI's to bump my 12 Str (see, I didn't dump stat) to a 14, pick up one of the other magic weapons in the party and stab things when my bow doesn't work. Heck, burn the two ASI's on Str, have a 16 Str equal to my 16 Dex and be a fairly decent melee combatant.</li> </ul><p></p><p>So, there's at least three things I could have done to resolve the problem, all on my own. I'm sure there are probably more if I really wracked my brain. Some people might argue that I'm having to give up my character concept, but, I would point out that it's my own fault. I made this character. No one is forcing me to play it. If it's not getting the job done, isn't it up to me to make a character that does get it done?</p><p></p><p>((Note, the irony of me defending DM choices is not lost on me. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />))</p><p></p><p>I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect the players to shore up their own problems. You dump statted Str and have trouble with exploration because you can't climb for beans? Well, burn your down time, learn a Climbing Harness tool and now you've got a decent climb ability. Or, instead of jumping up on that 20 Dex, maybe boost your dump stat first and trade a little bit of your specialization for a broader character concept. What I don't think is reasonable is expecting the DM to tailor his or her adventures so that everything you face is squarely in your wheelhouse.</p><p></p><p>Look, if your campaign is 90% in one pillar (whether combat, exploration or talkie bits, doesn't matter) then the players are going to hyper specialize to their hearts content. Who cares if you dump stat Strength if your campaign features little or no combat? It's just not going to come up. But, if you make the honest attempt to balance all three pillars, then heavily specialized characters are going to really, really struggle outside of their specialization. And I really don't put any blame for those struggles on the DM. That's my fault, not his.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 7073398, member: 22779"] Just to turn this conversation back to important things, namely me (;p), I'd point out a couple of more details about our Ravenloft game. Now, just to remind you all, I stated that the party is 8th level and I'm playing a hunter Ranger with a bow. In 8 levels, we have not found a magic bow or magic arrows (although we do have a number of silver ones) and it has been a serious challenge to my character. We have largely worked around the issue by having one of the casters drop a Magic Weapon spell on me when needed, although, that isn't a sure thing. And yes, the rest of the party has magic weapons. Some people have expressed the notion that it's up to the DM to rectify this. He should drop in a magic bow or some arrows or something somewhere along the way. I take a different perspective. This is a problem of my own devising, largely. There are a number of things I could have done to solve this problem on my own. In no particular order: [list][*]Take a level in a caster class and cast my own Magic Weapon spells, at least a few times per day, and still have cantrips to rely on when the bow doesn't work. [*]Take the Magic Initiate feat and again, cast my own Magic Weapons spells. [*]Burn one of my ASI's to bump my 12 Str (see, I didn't dump stat) to a 14, pick up one of the other magic weapons in the party and stab things when my bow doesn't work. Heck, burn the two ASI's on Str, have a 16 Str equal to my 16 Dex and be a fairly decent melee combatant. [/list] So, there's at least three things I could have done to resolve the problem, all on my own. I'm sure there are probably more if I really wracked my brain. Some people might argue that I'm having to give up my character concept, but, I would point out that it's my own fault. I made this character. No one is forcing me to play it. If it's not getting the job done, isn't it up to me to make a character that does get it done? ((Note, the irony of me defending DM choices is not lost on me. :D)) I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect the players to shore up their own problems. You dump statted Str and have trouble with exploration because you can't climb for beans? Well, burn your down time, learn a Climbing Harness tool and now you've got a decent climb ability. Or, instead of jumping up on that 20 Dex, maybe boost your dump stat first and trade a little bit of your specialization for a broader character concept. What I don't think is reasonable is expecting the DM to tailor his or her adventures so that everything you face is squarely in your wheelhouse. Look, if your campaign is 90% in one pillar (whether combat, exploration or talkie bits, doesn't matter) then the players are going to hyper specialize to their hearts content. Who cares if you dump stat Strength if your campaign features little or no combat? It's just not going to come up. But, if you make the honest attempt to balance all three pillars, then heavily specialized characters are going to really, really struggle outside of their specialization. And I really don't put any blame for those struggles on the DM. That's my fault, not his. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Where does optimizing end and min-maxing begin? And is min-maxing a bad thing?
Top