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Where does optimizing end and min-maxing begin? And is min-maxing a bad thing?
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<blockquote data-quote="Ilbranteloth" data-source="post: 7074051" data-attributes="member: 6778044"><p>Ahh, that's another place where we differ...more below.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So in my campaigns, level advancement is very slow. Our focus is on the characters and their development, and their stories. Due to some external factors, this last group has ended/is on hiatus. But they just reached 8th level after more than 2 years of meeting weekly. And that's fast for my campaigns, mostly because we were still getting used to 5e and its differences. To the best of my recollection, I don't think we've ever had a character reach 10th level, and in some cases those characters were played actively (once/week) for up to 7 years of game time. I'll have to see if I can dig up one of those old characters to make sure.</p><p></p><p>Magic items are a mix of things. For the most part they are designed around where they are found. Many are those held by opponents. Who use them against the party. So that's a mix of random and what is best suited for that NPC. Higher level NPCs are more likely to have magic items suited more specifically to them. Lower level will lean towards more random.</p><p></p><p>Those found in treasures will relate to the source of the treasure. Like a sword in the tomb of a warrior. Others are random. My treasure generation is geared more towards fewer coins and more items (tapestries, ceramics, furniture, decorative items, weapons and armor, and the sort of things that people who have disposable money spend their money on. In general, monstrous humanoids (goblinkin, orcs, etc.) don't have coins. There might be some located in a lair, thrown away, but they don't have a money based economy. They are mediocre armorers and weaponsmiths, so they value weapons and armor, along with items that show their strength and prowess in combat. If there are magic items they can identify and use, they will. Others might be discarded.</p><p></p><p>Incidental treasures, like those of adventurers felled by monsters that have no use for magic weapons, are determined randomly. As I said, magic items are fairly common, because they are (to a large degree) a substitute for rapid level advancement. Spellbooks and scrolls are the things that most of the wizards treasure, for example. Defensive items and wands are next, since they give them extra spell use without consuming spell slots. Potions too are common. </p><p></p><p>So why give them a trident? Because they are fighting Kuo-toa or Sahuagin and one of the larger ones has a trident. Or perhaps they found it in the temple of an ancient sea god. If it was randomly determined, I'd probably consider something else or roll again. But on the other hand, if it was an orc that had it, I'd probably keep it. It might be odd, but an orc with a magic weapon would have an edge over other orcs, despite the unlikely choice of weapon.</p><p></p><p>Because of encumbrance issues, there is typically a lot of treasure that gets left behind. Magic items are usually things they'll take, if only to try to sell them. But even that's not a guaranteed thing. Depending on where they are, finding a buyer for a magic trident may not be that easy.</p><p></p><p>Another factor I should mention, weapons with a bonus to hit (+1, +2) are masterwork weapons in my campaign. Well, more than that. They tend to be of special materials and techniques known to either specific smiths, or often regional (like Damascus/Wootz steel). Some weapons can't carry such a bonus, like a quarterstaff, club, or sling. If somebody could explain how a sling could be made to grant a bonus to attacks and damage with it, I'd certainly allow it. Because of this, they are expensive, and still quite rare, but can be found. Of course, in a region where they are made, they are relatively common. But because this gives a military advantage, they aren't allowed to be exported. There are smugglers of course, but overall they prefer this because it drives the price higher. Agents from those lands do what they can to recover lost weapons of this sort. Again, not every weapon made in these locations carry these properties.</p><p></p><p>Elvish weapons are a special case. They are masterwork weapons, but the mithril alloy and the processes they use is a secret to the elves, and it also has the ability to overcome resistance and immunity to non-magical weapons. Of course, these weapons are also rare, and not given out to everybody, not even elves. Elves do not sell them, they make them for individuals, or for the defenses of their home.</p><p></p><p>So actual magic weapons have something more than just a bonus. And because the creation of magic items in my campaign is both time consuming and potentially permanently drains Strength and/or Constitution, not to mention the chance of failure, they tend to be made for somebody specifically. So most permanent items have a history in my campaign, although it's not always known to the PCs. They are recognizable to those who know about them, and often make the PCs a target for thieves and shady merchants if they flaunt their weapon enough.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ilbranteloth, post: 7074051, member: 6778044"] Ahh, that's another place where we differ...more below. So in my campaigns, level advancement is very slow. Our focus is on the characters and their development, and their stories. Due to some external factors, this last group has ended/is on hiatus. But they just reached 8th level after more than 2 years of meeting weekly. And that's fast for my campaigns, mostly because we were still getting used to 5e and its differences. To the best of my recollection, I don't think we've ever had a character reach 10th level, and in some cases those characters were played actively (once/week) for up to 7 years of game time. I'll have to see if I can dig up one of those old characters to make sure. Magic items are a mix of things. For the most part they are designed around where they are found. Many are those held by opponents. Who use them against the party. So that's a mix of random and what is best suited for that NPC. Higher level NPCs are more likely to have magic items suited more specifically to them. Lower level will lean towards more random. Those found in treasures will relate to the source of the treasure. Like a sword in the tomb of a warrior. Others are random. My treasure generation is geared more towards fewer coins and more items (tapestries, ceramics, furniture, decorative items, weapons and armor, and the sort of things that people who have disposable money spend their money on. In general, monstrous humanoids (goblinkin, orcs, etc.) don't have coins. There might be some located in a lair, thrown away, but they don't have a money based economy. They are mediocre armorers and weaponsmiths, so they value weapons and armor, along with items that show their strength and prowess in combat. If there are magic items they can identify and use, they will. Others might be discarded. Incidental treasures, like those of adventurers felled by monsters that have no use for magic weapons, are determined randomly. As I said, magic items are fairly common, because they are (to a large degree) a substitute for rapid level advancement. Spellbooks and scrolls are the things that most of the wizards treasure, for example. Defensive items and wands are next, since they give them extra spell use without consuming spell slots. Potions too are common. So why give them a trident? Because they are fighting Kuo-toa or Sahuagin and one of the larger ones has a trident. Or perhaps they found it in the temple of an ancient sea god. If it was randomly determined, I'd probably consider something else or roll again. But on the other hand, if it was an orc that had it, I'd probably keep it. It might be odd, but an orc with a magic weapon would have an edge over other orcs, despite the unlikely choice of weapon. Because of encumbrance issues, there is typically a lot of treasure that gets left behind. Magic items are usually things they'll take, if only to try to sell them. But even that's not a guaranteed thing. Depending on where they are, finding a buyer for a magic trident may not be that easy. Another factor I should mention, weapons with a bonus to hit (+1, +2) are masterwork weapons in my campaign. Well, more than that. They tend to be of special materials and techniques known to either specific smiths, or often regional (like Damascus/Wootz steel). Some weapons can't carry such a bonus, like a quarterstaff, club, or sling. If somebody could explain how a sling could be made to grant a bonus to attacks and damage with it, I'd certainly allow it. Because of this, they are expensive, and still quite rare, but can be found. Of course, in a region where they are made, they are relatively common. But because this gives a military advantage, they aren't allowed to be exported. There are smugglers of course, but overall they prefer this because it drives the price higher. Agents from those lands do what they can to recover lost weapons of this sort. Again, not every weapon made in these locations carry these properties. Elvish weapons are a special case. They are masterwork weapons, but the mithril alloy and the processes they use is a secret to the elves, and it also has the ability to overcome resistance and immunity to non-magical weapons. Of course, these weapons are also rare, and not given out to everybody, not even elves. Elves do not sell them, they make them for individuals, or for the defenses of their home. So actual magic weapons have something more than just a bonus. And because the creation of magic items in my campaign is both time consuming and potentially permanently drains Strength and/or Constitution, not to mention the chance of failure, they tend to be made for somebody specifically. So most permanent items have a history in my campaign, although it's not always known to the PCs. They are recognizable to those who know about them, and often make the PCs a target for thieves and shady merchants if they flaunt their weapon enough. [/QUOTE]
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Where does optimizing end and min-maxing begin? And is min-maxing a bad thing?
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