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Message: <blockquote data-quote="nswanson27" data-source="post: 7077992" data-attributes="member: 6797553">I should have been clearer - there were optimizers in the group - a couple, in fact. And I hear what you're saying about buffing/debuffing/CC/etc, but this person wasn't even doing that either. I think it was apparent to everyone (including the DM) that this person wasn't the most "strategic in their ways", and there was some follow-up where people offered to help re-tool the spell list and whatnot.  Also, without the DM being very (overly) kind at the end, we would have almost certainly wiped.So yes, for us there was really no issue (thankfully). My overall point though is that situation was one bad attitude away from being a counterpoint to the "it's all the optimizer's fault for ruining the fun".</blockquote>