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Message: <blockquote data-quote="OB1" data-source="post: 7079334" data-attributes="member: 6796241">Sorry to jump in the middle of such a long thread.  It's taken me nearly a week to catch up, and I have truly been inspired by much of the conversation.  I think this is a fascinating topic, as it really gets to the heart of what I feel is one of the primary design decisions in 5e. First, my definitions of optimizing and min-maxing.Optimizing is the art of making the mechanics of your character match your character concept.  Min-Maxing is a type of optimization in which your character concept revolves around being very good in a narrow set of abilities at the exclusion of all else.Typically, Min-Maxing refers to focusing on combat optimization, and because there is a limited set of options that will produce top level results, is necessarily limiting in the types of characters you create.  This used to produce an interesting mini-game within the game, but with the advent of forums such as this, that game is no longer interesting, it's a riddle that you already have the answer for.  So the designers of 5e stopped forcing you to play that mini-game by no longer assuming a min-maxed character in the baseline level of play.Because 5e has a baseline that doesn't assume min-maxing, that means that choosing to do this trivializes the combat pillar of the game.  In essence, it is like choosing to play in "narrative" or "easy" mode in a modern video game.  If I have a player min-max in this way, it doesn't bother me, because it tells me that they want combat to be easy.  If they don't want combat to be that easy, I encourage them to try different character concepts.To reach "normal" difficulty in 5e combat, all that is required is that you have a +2 in your primary combat stat.  Do less than that, and you are playing at "Hard" or "Legendary" difficulty, but the game is still playable.  You just have to use your advantages in other areas to compensate.  Because of this, when Optimizing a character, there are now thousands of options available, from the combat specialist who was born to do her job with just the right genetic mix to the reluctant wizard who never had the smarts but went to wizarding school anyhow because that's where his mother went, to the devout and strong knight who wasn't born a natural leader but through his example and faith becomes one.  The choices you make through your career are defined by the adventures you have, the lessons you learn and as you level up you work to constantly optimize your mechanics to the reality of the PC being played.The designers of 5e, wishing to encourage experimentation with character design stopped the arms race and instead made player choice matter again.  In 5e, Min-Maxing for combat is the biggest trap option of all.</blockquote>

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