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<blockquote data-quote="Sunseeker" data-source="post: 6528574">I don't understand this mentality of &quot;yay I got to level 5!&quot; it's an ugly gamist attitude that causes people to lose sight of the NOW and focus on then eventual outcome: maximizing your character in the form of the highest level, the best gear, the most gold, etc...Getting to NOW isn't the goal.&nbsp; It's an outcome.&nbsp; Treating the NOW like a goal just means that once you've reached it the goal becomes the next level, and the level after that.&nbsp; Level 5 is an outcome of all the cool adventures we've had, not the point of them.&nbsp; So bringing a character in at level 1 or level 5 shouldn't make any difference because the actual level of the character is irrelevant.&nbsp; At level 5 we will have cool adventures.&nbsp; At level 1 we will have cool adventures.The big difference is as pointed out in the OP: a first level character is basically useless if the party is 5th or higher and this is pretty true of most editions and variants of D&amp;D.&nbsp; ---------------------@OP: Character death gets special treatment in my games, when a character REALLY dies that person DIES.&nbsp; We give them funeral rights, we sometimes undergo missions to find their family, their children or accomplish some goal the character felt was important to them.&nbsp;&nbsp; Magical resurrection is rare in my games, I houserule several limitations on it: You can only be revived from true death once and it requires half the maximum health of the caster to revive you (they're basically sacrificing some of their life to bring you back), and it can only be used once per day (per caster).&nbsp; New characters come in at level, because the level is a representation of the progression of the game, not the accumulated experience from battling foes.&nbsp; Even if it was, I don't subscribe to the idea that adventurers are rare.&nbsp; Reasonably speaking there is a good chance there is at least one other adventurer at the same level within reasonable reach of the party.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sunseeker, post: 6528574"] I don't understand this mentality of "yay I got to level 5!" it's an ugly gamist attitude that causes people to lose sight of the NOW and focus on then eventual outcome: maximizing your character in the form of the highest level, the best gear, the most gold, etc... Getting to NOW isn't the goal. It's an outcome. Treating the NOW like a goal just means that once you've reached it the goal becomes the next level, and the level after that. Level 5 is an outcome of all the cool adventures we've had, not the point of them. So bringing a character in at level 1 or level 5 shouldn't make any difference because the actual level of the character is irrelevant. At level 5 we will have cool adventures. At level 1 we will have cool adventures. The big difference is as pointed out in the OP: a first level character is basically useless if the party is 5th or higher and this is pretty true of most editions and variants of D&D. --------------------- @OP: Character death gets special treatment in my games, when a character REALLY dies that person DIES. We give them funeral rights, we sometimes undergo missions to find their family, their children or accomplish some goal the character felt was important to them. Magical resurrection is rare in my games, I houserule several limitations on it: You can only be revived from true death once and it requires half the maximum health of the caster to revive you (they're basically sacrificing some of their life to bring you back), and it can only be used once per day (per caster). New characters come in at level, because the level is a representation of the progression of the game, not the accumulated experience from battling foes. Even if it was, I don't subscribe to the idea that adventurers are rare. Reasonably speaking there is a good chance there is at least one other adventurer at the same level within reasonable reach of the party. [/QUOTE]

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