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Where does the punitive approach to pc death come from?
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 6531571" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>This seems like a bit more of a campaign-specific twist than I'm aware of. That is, in 3e (and I'm <em>fairly</em> sure 4e too) it's just some important body part, but it might be the head (or skull, if it's decayed) specifically. I've never heard a mention of <em>needing</em> the heart before.</p><p></p><p>That said, though? This could be a pretty interesting premise in a campaign where death was not unusual. "You can accept death...or you can accept a new body." Presumably that would mean (a) rerolling your stats and (b) possibly taking a Charisma hit. Sort of a campaign-specific variation of the old random tables for determining what kind of creature you resurrect as.</p><p></p><p>Personally, if I were running a campaign, I'd follow some kind of ruling structure like this:</p><p>1) If it seems <em>really</em> inappropriate (for whatever reason) for the character to actually die--they just won't. I might <em>bill</em> it as the character "dying," but take that particular player aside and try to work out some kind of interesting "rescue" plot or "mind-controlled servant" or whatever they think would be cool. Still probably requires a replacement, temporary or otherwise, but not truly "dead."</p><p>2) If the character is under level 5ish and has not yet "died" in this campaign, they get an automatic "freebie with strings." A god, a demonic/devilish figure, a fey being--some powerful entity shows up and offers a deal. If the character already has particular ties (e.g. Warlock, Cleric/Paladin, Druid, etc.) those may factor in--both from whomever/whatever they're sworn to...and possibly the <em>enemies</em> of whomever they're sworn to. (Always some nice tension there.) Such already-bound characters may even spontaneously wake up without accepting anything, the entity in question hoping that it will be easier to demand service rather than offer a strings-attached deal.</p><p>3) If the character is over level 5 or has already "died" at least once, they stay dead, but may be resurrected. Predatory creatures might leave enough of the body behind to track down the rest--or to enable an expensive/difficult resurrection ritual. If the party is cool with it (and the player is interested), this may become a brand-new quest, to restore their fallen comrade.</p><p>4) If the party as a whole doesn't want to resurrect the character, but the player doesn't want to let it go, I might try to weave in a more...strange version. For example, if only one other character wants the resurrection, they could make a deal with a hedge witch a la Disney's Ursula: pay a price, get "what you want," even if it's not what you expected. Then I'd roll on a random table of races to see what comes of it. Double-plus side: this actually still leaves open the option of the character's body being resurrected normally--which then leaves an open question about who is "real" or not (or both, or neither!) and other juicy goodness.</p><p></p><p>Also, all of that aside? I like the 4e method (which 5e more or less uses too) where you have to fail a certain number of saves to actually "die." It prolongs the tension of <em>dying</em>--keeping that feeling of tension in the air--while keeping death in the uncommon-but-not-impossible range where I prefer it to be. For a party that actually prepares to face deadly situations, there should always be a <em>chance</em> to pull an ally out, incapacitated but alive, IMO.</p><p></p><p>Incidentally: I respect others feeling that the game has no tension if you can't lose it all, but for me it's exactly the opposite; if every hand could invalidate all the winnings I've made, <em>that</em> saps the tension for me. It's why I take a dim view of people fiat declaring that you can <em>only</em> have tension with a constant looming threat of death.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 6531571, member: 6790260"] This seems like a bit more of a campaign-specific twist than I'm aware of. That is, in 3e (and I'm [I]fairly[/I] sure 4e too) it's just some important body part, but it might be the head (or skull, if it's decayed) specifically. I've never heard a mention of [I]needing[/I] the heart before. That said, though? This could be a pretty interesting premise in a campaign where death was not unusual. "You can accept death...or you can accept a new body." Presumably that would mean (a) rerolling your stats and (b) possibly taking a Charisma hit. Sort of a campaign-specific variation of the old random tables for determining what kind of creature you resurrect as. Personally, if I were running a campaign, I'd follow some kind of ruling structure like this: 1) If it seems [I]really[/I] inappropriate (for whatever reason) for the character to actually die--they just won't. I might [I]bill[/I] it as the character "dying," but take that particular player aside and try to work out some kind of interesting "rescue" plot or "mind-controlled servant" or whatever they think would be cool. Still probably requires a replacement, temporary or otherwise, but not truly "dead." 2) If the character is under level 5ish and has not yet "died" in this campaign, they get an automatic "freebie with strings." A god, a demonic/devilish figure, a fey being--some powerful entity shows up and offers a deal. If the character already has particular ties (e.g. Warlock, Cleric/Paladin, Druid, etc.) those may factor in--both from whomever/whatever they're sworn to...and possibly the [I]enemies[/I] of whomever they're sworn to. (Always some nice tension there.) Such already-bound characters may even spontaneously wake up without accepting anything, the entity in question hoping that it will be easier to demand service rather than offer a strings-attached deal. 3) If the character is over level 5 or has already "died" at least once, they stay dead, but may be resurrected. Predatory creatures might leave enough of the body behind to track down the rest--or to enable an expensive/difficult resurrection ritual. If the party is cool with it (and the player is interested), this may become a brand-new quest, to restore their fallen comrade. 4) If the party as a whole doesn't want to resurrect the character, but the player doesn't want to let it go, I might try to weave in a more...strange version. For example, if only one other character wants the resurrection, they could make a deal with a hedge witch a la Disney's Ursula: pay a price, get "what you want," even if it's not what you expected. Then I'd roll on a random table of races to see what comes of it. Double-plus side: this actually still leaves open the option of the character's body being resurrected normally--which then leaves an open question about who is "real" or not (or both, or neither!) and other juicy goodness. Also, all of that aside? I like the 4e method (which 5e more or less uses too) where you have to fail a certain number of saves to actually "die." It prolongs the tension of [I]dying[/I]--keeping that feeling of tension in the air--while keeping death in the uncommon-but-not-impossible range where I prefer it to be. For a party that actually prepares to face deadly situations, there should always be a [I]chance[/I] to pull an ally out, incapacitated but alive, IMO. Incidentally: I respect others feeling that the game has no tension if you can't lose it all, but for me it's exactly the opposite; if every hand could invalidate all the winnings I've made, [I]that[/I] saps the tension for me. It's why I take a dim view of people fiat declaring that you can [I]only[/I] have tension with a constant looming threat of death. [/QUOTE]
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