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Message: <blockquote data-quote="mlund" data-source="post: 6561275" data-attributes="member: 50304">Death penalties (punitive mechanical consequences like lose a level, lose Con, roll a new level 1, etc.) exist in direct relationship to the idea that people are "keeping score" in a game. Hedges against characters dying pointlessly to random neck-arrows and "crit happens" events are all well and good if you're playing for something other than "score" in D&D. You don't have to lose anything by taking the random and ignoble demise off the table, since death isn't necessary (or in some cases even relevant) to maintain dramatic tension and risk in playing the game. Considering the number of spells that negate death anyway, it seems like a player should be much more concerned about failure. There are many worse things than death - both for the players and for the characters themselves.That's one of the things I really like about 13th Age - there's an emphasis on the consequences of failure outside of death. Campaign Failure is a thing. The analog that keeps coming to mind is the back half of Final Fantasy VI (3 on the SNES). The party ate one too many campaign failures (scripted, but that's besides the point here) and STUFF happened. It wasn't "Game Over" because that's utterly boring, but it was definitely something the characters and players were not happy about. It was much worse than losing a couple of characters tragically (or even ignobly). Meanwhile, death is a lot more relevant to the characters because simply having Clerics and Diamonds and chunks of the body doesn't mean characters can come back. Restoring someone from death is tampering with fundamental forces of the universe. Not only does it require uncommon power, but the price of doing so rapidly escalated to equivalent exchange (or worse!). It's a good system to hang a "death flag" on or something similar. It's kind of baked in.So, no, dead characters and lost levels are strictly necessary for dramatic tension or game risks. It's just a very tidy and pat resolution mechanic, kind of like how par-boiled and unseasoned pork is a perfectly serviceable food item. That's fine and all, but I'm not going to sit down at a table to order that. There are plenty of other places that'll serve ham, bacon, sausage, Italian stuffed pork roast, or at least attempt to chicken-fry it.It's all about going to the place with the right cook in the kitchen.Marty Lund</blockquote>

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