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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DarkKestral" data-source="post: 3218768" data-attributes="member: 40100">Another thing about the sort of "Shining Armor Hero" type is that, ultimately, to be interesting, they MUST have a dramatic tragedy. That can be a 'fall from grace', an 'ultimate failure', a moral dilemma, (BBEG: "save the world or save your sister. you choose." is an example of this kind of dilemma.) or something that essentially says "You can't be perfect." This is why a lot of people find paladins unfun. This is why a lot of people prefer anti-heroes. Odysseus is probably one of only a few stories where the protagonist isn't really directly flawed as part of his character. Instead, he just has the wrath of gods against him. Arthur and Lancelot were constantly sleeping around. Percival was an idiot and lost the Holy Grail as a result. Beowulf dies because he can't give up fighting. Superman can't deal with women. Batman has killed people on at least a few occasions out of pure revenge. Same with Spiderman.  Most epic heroes suffer problems because they are imperfect, and that's what keeps them interesting.As to the example of the Adventurers and the King with the Missing Prince--Depending on the worldview, if you stick to the basic assumption of D&D that Magic Is Rare And Very Expensive and have a truly feudal system with nobles having a fair amount of autonomy and protection from the king, adventurers with the right dispensations (temporal or religious) or noble status could certainly wage war on the reigning monarch, and an NG monarch could be dethroned in favor of the obviously more powerful (and therefore more politically dangerous) cadre of adventurers, because the noble houses would see that they'd be better aligned with the people most likely to win a major war. If they have noble backing by the right houses (and if adventurers are nobles, that's possible) then a real "medieval Europe"-a-like would mean that they'd be pretty much immune to anything but the king waging all out economic or physical war on the nobles that support them. This is likely to fail, as the other nobles and the church both probably have a vested interest in ensuring the king doesn't get too powerful.On the other hand, assuming the king is high leveled, and Magic Is Relatively Common But Not Exactly Cheap... and that the king's truly got all these impressive magical defenses... then why did he let his son get kidnapped? Most kings were smart enough to ensure their heirs were protected with considerable amounts of force. Furthermore, if he himself is so powerful and spends so much of his time away from his homelands (a sure sign he probably doesn't want to be there in the first place...) why doesn't he adventure himself to find his son? Or get his 20th level friends to do so, since they apparently have some time? Why is he hiring? Why isn't he just commanding his knights to return the Prince? Each of those 'amazing protections' you put in only made the situation seem more and more implausible. Permanent 5th spells are expensive. Multiple permanent 9th level spells are the kind of things that countries are bought and sold over. At the point you mentioned, I'd (perfectly in-character) would be asking "Why are you thinking you'll be hiring us, if you're not willing to pay? You knew we are mercenaries, and that taking us out will cause all of our information to be leaked to appropriate enemies of yours..." which would not be something easily defended against, like attacks on the king's person would.EDIT: IMCs, Divine Right of Kings is best summed up as... "It could be true. But then again, Gods sometimes take away favor. Perhaps it's MY divine right to be the next king..." so in the end, it's up the the PCs to figure out whether or not starting a war is something that they should do. This is because I like my gods relatively neutral, distant, and generally uninterested in the affairs of mortals. Also, Nobles are likely to actually have power relative to the King, and the affairs between countries are either kept in royal bedchambers, in the throne room, or on the battlefield. There aren't any transnational organizations that the royalty belong to, other than the churches. Diplomats are common sights in courts, but royals are stubborn and tend to be at least somewhat greedy about power, even if they are both LG.. so backstabbing happens anyway. Needless to say, mercenaries fit in such a world.</blockquote>

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