Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Where is D&D Headed Next (Wired.com)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Ratskinner" data-source="post: 5918598" data-attributes="member: 6688937"><p>Maybe. However, what if, after analysis, you find that the thing that made them bad mechanics was that they too narrowly defined game, gave the players too much explicit control, and there were far too many of them? That's the case I think the designers believe themselves in.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'll withhold judgement on your examples, having not played them. However, I don't think that "solid" is the question. Or at least, we operate with different definitions of "solid", in this case. I believe that the <u>rigidity </u>of those mechanics is the big question. When you pile on descriptor after descriptor, you define the play experience. This can be overdone, especially in a game like D&D with all its attendant mechanical baggage. Hence the "thrash metal" quote. </p><p></p><p>Consider the more narrative rpgs. Many of which have very defined, solid, mechanics that tell you very clearly whether you succeeded or failed. Many of which also have perfect numerical character balance. Several even operate without GMs at all. Very few of them actually define for you precisely "how" you succeed or fail. </p><p></p><p>The problem is...none of those game use mechanical baggage like HP, AC, Vancian magic, Classes, etc. They all start with the presumption that the mechanics will be simulating a story, so things like <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheoryOfNarrativeCausality" target="_blank">Narrative Causality </a>often work and are more important than simulating a "realistic" combat. That is to say, they start as story games, not war games that turned into story games. Of course, what story you tell is very flexible (at least in most of them).</p><p></p><p>That's a big gap for the designer's to bridge. I'm curious to see how and how well they bridge it. Its not impossible, there's a few mind-bending games out there that use new-school mechanics to simulate old-school feel, so who knows?</p><p></p><p>Oh, and just to be clear: There's nothing inherently right or wrong about liking any of these types of play. If you like 4e's "thrash metal", that's fine. However, that doesn't mean that that's best for the brand and continuation of the game/culture or WOTC's profitability and bottom line. Obviously, narrative games aren't taking off in a really big way, so I'm not looking to see a whole mess of narrative stuff injected into 5e.<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ratskinner, post: 5918598, member: 6688937"] Maybe. However, what if, after analysis, you find that the thing that made them bad mechanics was that they too narrowly defined game, gave the players too much explicit control, and there were far too many of them? That's the case I think the designers believe themselves in. I'll withhold judgement on your examples, having not played them. However, I don't think that "solid" is the question. Or at least, we operate with different definitions of "solid", in this case. I believe that the [U]rigidity [/U]of those mechanics is the big question. When you pile on descriptor after descriptor, you define the play experience. This can be overdone, especially in a game like D&D with all its attendant mechanical baggage. Hence the "thrash metal" quote. Consider the more narrative rpgs. Many of which have very defined, solid, mechanics that tell you very clearly whether you succeeded or failed. Many of which also have perfect numerical character balance. Several even operate without GMs at all. Very few of them actually define for you precisely "how" you succeed or fail. The problem is...none of those game use mechanical baggage like HP, AC, Vancian magic, Classes, etc. They all start with the presumption that the mechanics will be simulating a story, so things like [URL="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheoryOfNarrativeCausality"]Narrative Causality [/URL]often work and are more important than simulating a "realistic" combat. That is to say, they start as story games, not war games that turned into story games. Of course, what story you tell is very flexible (at least in most of them). That's a big gap for the designer's to bridge. I'm curious to see how and how well they bridge it. Its not impossible, there's a few mind-bending games out there that use new-school mechanics to simulate old-school feel, so who knows? Oh, and just to be clear: There's nothing inherently right or wrong about liking any of these types of play. If you like 4e's "thrash metal", that's fine. However, that doesn't mean that that's best for the brand and continuation of the game/culture or WOTC's profitability and bottom line. Obviously, narrative games aren't taking off in a really big way, so I'm not looking to see a whole mess of narrative stuff injected into 5e.;) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Where is D&D Headed Next (Wired.com)
Top