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<blockquote data-quote="ferratus" data-source="post: 4092612" data-attributes="member: 55966">Before this becomes a list of every complaint talked about, I realize the list is general and not exhaustive.&nbsp; I was writing up that list ie. &quot;rings aren't available before 10th level&quot;, when I realized it was beside the point.&nbsp; There has been complaints over every single piece of information that has come out about 4e.&nbsp; However, I was trying to group them into themes, and to make it the thing which makes people viscerally react &quot;D&amp;D 4e is not really D&amp;D&quot; rather than simply something they might house rule.Campbell&gt; A lot of what you are saying is an extension of the criticism that D&amp;D is moving back to its roots as a wargame, but I'm not sure I understand the rest.&nbsp; Is this the idea that D&amp;D rules should be the physics of the game world, rather than rules for making your PC's kick ass that are different than the rules for monsters or lesser mortals?&nbsp;&nbsp; I might add that one, because it does qualify for the (&quot;and that's why 4e is not D&amp;D clause&quot;.)&nbsp; &nbsp; Of course, unlike most of the points I listed above, I don't the criticism at all seriously.&nbsp;&nbsp; Like the healing surges making character's invincible, I would have to footnote it. Duncan McCrae&gt; I doubt if the people complaining that the wizard is now not the most powerful class in the game were ever 4e's customers.&nbsp; That was supposed to have been resolved in 3.0, and if you didn't like it then you probably stuck with 1st or 2nd edition.&nbsp; There were a few converts from 1e to 3e, but I doubt if 4e (or any edition) is going to win the remaining holdouts.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ferratus, post: 4092612, member: 55966"] Before this becomes a list of every complaint talked about, I realize the list is general and not exhaustive. I was writing up that list ie. "rings aren't available before 10th level", when I realized it was beside the point. There has been complaints over every single piece of information that has come out about 4e. However, I was trying to group them into themes, and to make it the thing which makes people viscerally react "D&D 4e is not really D&D" rather than simply something they might house rule. Campbell> A lot of what you are saying is an extension of the criticism that D&D is moving back to its roots as a wargame, but I'm not sure I understand the rest. Is this the idea that D&D rules should be the physics of the game world, rather than rules for making your PC's kick ass that are different than the rules for monsters or lesser mortals? I might add that one, because it does qualify for the ("and that's why 4e is not D&D clause".) Of course, unlike most of the points I listed above, I don't the criticism at all seriously. Like the healing surges making character's invincible, I would have to footnote it. Duncan McCrae> I doubt if the people complaining that the wizard is now not the most powerful class in the game were ever 4e's customers. That was supposed to have been resolved in 3.0, and if you didn't like it then you probably stuck with 1st or 2nd edition. There were a few converts from 1e to 3e, but I doubt if 4e (or any edition) is going to win the remaining holdouts. [/QUOTE]

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