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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Where the break between pro and anti 4e is
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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 4092783" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>One concern I have is a combination of two things:</p><p></p><p>1) Every PC gets a new abillity at each level. While this has historically been fine for players who want to play complex PCs, it's going to be difficult for some people like my wife whose 10th level PC right now has about 5 main abilities and she sometimes even gets confused over those. Not every player is as comfortable with the game system as most of the readers of ENWorld. She plays to socialize, not to remember 600 pages of PHB and DMG rules (granted, spell casters have fewer combat spells in 4E, but rogues and fighters have more abilities).</p><p></p><p>2) The synergies of all of these different abilities. In the past, a handful of spells would be cast each combat and the group had to take into account a half dozen or so synergies from them. With the new edition and virtually every class having ways to throw multiple synergies into the mix every combat, it might become a bookkeeping nightmare. What really concerned me was the article that showed that it was easy to put a bunch of tokens and pins on the board to represent all of these different new conditions.</p><p></p><p></p><p>As one example, there have been hundreds of threads discussing the 3E Dodge and the fact that it was so difficult to remember to use it every round and to remember which target the Dodge was against and DMs houseruled it right and left.</p><p></p><p>4E came up with Marks which are similar mechanically. The player will have to remember to use his Mark and remember which NPC his Mark affects.</p><p></p><p>I cannot believe WotC did not take into account the pages and pages of complaints about Dodge from 3E and used virtually the same mechanic for 4E Mark. It seems like they totally missed the boat here.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 4092783, member: 2011"] One concern I have is a combination of two things: 1) Every PC gets a new abillity at each level. While this has historically been fine for players who want to play complex PCs, it's going to be difficult for some people like my wife whose 10th level PC right now has about 5 main abilities and she sometimes even gets confused over those. Not every player is as comfortable with the game system as most of the readers of ENWorld. She plays to socialize, not to remember 600 pages of PHB and DMG rules (granted, spell casters have fewer combat spells in 4E, but rogues and fighters have more abilities). 2) The synergies of all of these different abilities. In the past, a handful of spells would be cast each combat and the group had to take into account a half dozen or so synergies from them. With the new edition and virtually every class having ways to throw multiple synergies into the mix every combat, it might become a bookkeeping nightmare. What really concerned me was the article that showed that it was easy to put a bunch of tokens and pins on the board to represent all of these different new conditions. As one example, there have been hundreds of threads discussing the 3E Dodge and the fact that it was so difficult to remember to use it every round and to remember which target the Dodge was against and DMs houseruled it right and left. 4E came up with Marks which are similar mechanically. The player will have to remember to use his Mark and remember which NPC his Mark affects. I cannot believe WotC did not take into account the pages and pages of complaints about Dodge from 3E and used virtually the same mechanic for 4E Mark. It seems like they totally missed the boat here. [/QUOTE]
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Where the break between pro and anti 4e is
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