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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Where the break between pro and anti 4e is
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<blockquote data-quote="Zinegata" data-source="post: 4093289" data-attributes="member: 61387"><p>I'm probably old and cynical enough to be considered a grognard (not to mention I actually play old-school wargames, who do proudly call themselves grognards) so I'll give the list a whirl.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Blowing up continuity does kind of piss people off regardless of the game. Largely because when continuity gets re-written the material tends to "jump the shark."</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>... Wait, we can't? WHAT?!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>D&D started as a wargame... so not really a big deal. My bigger concern if they can make it a good tactical wargame and not just "two sides flailing away at each other with the neatest powers/magic/weapons possible."</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Doesn't bother me at all.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I have concerns about resource management, but it's just suspicions and not yet outright dislike so I won't comment on it yet.</p><p></p><p>However, I'm not entirely sold on the Healing Surges, and I know why - having everyone capable of healing takes away from the uniqueness of the healing classes.</p><p></p><p>Moreover, I'm particularly annoyed at how the healing surge mechanic is mostly the same for all of the classes. You have a second wind, and your HP is restored. I would have preferred it if there was some variation depending on the class. For some classes, the second wind could be a lot of instant healing. For others, it's a steady, gradual trickle of healing. And for others, it could be a boost of temporary HP. </p><p></p><p>The problem of course is the "between encounter" healing, but if I'm reading Rituals correctly they could do the job instead. Or a more powerful Heal skill or cheaper bandaids (CLW potions). </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'd just use 3rd party crit hit tables if I was that mean.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, I'd miss the thrill of trying not to get killed at level 1. But one can always go back to 3.X for a quick level 1 session if I get the itch.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In a way yes, it would have been ideal if 4E started with some complete newbie levels. It wasn't really a problem in older editions anyway. Just start at level 3 or 4.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It may be truer to say that every group's D&D is different. And that much of the hostility against 4E is whenever the designers announce something that is seen as moving away from "their" D&D.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Zinegata, post: 4093289, member: 61387"] I'm probably old and cynical enough to be considered a grognard (not to mention I actually play old-school wargames, who do proudly call themselves grognards) so I'll give the list a whirl. Blowing up continuity does kind of piss people off regardless of the game. Largely because when continuity gets re-written the material tends to "jump the shark." ... Wait, we can't? WHAT?! D&D started as a wargame... so not really a big deal. My bigger concern if they can make it a good tactical wargame and not just "two sides flailing away at each other with the neatest powers/magic/weapons possible." Doesn't bother me at all. I have concerns about resource management, but it's just suspicions and not yet outright dislike so I won't comment on it yet. However, I'm not entirely sold on the Healing Surges, and I know why - having everyone capable of healing takes away from the uniqueness of the healing classes. Moreover, I'm particularly annoyed at how the healing surge mechanic is mostly the same for all of the classes. You have a second wind, and your HP is restored. I would have preferred it if there was some variation depending on the class. For some classes, the second wind could be a lot of instant healing. For others, it's a steady, gradual trickle of healing. And for others, it could be a boost of temporary HP. The problem of course is the "between encounter" healing, but if I'm reading Rituals correctly they could do the job instead. Or a more powerful Heal skill or cheaper bandaids (CLW potions). I'd just use 3rd party crit hit tables if I was that mean. Yeah, I'd miss the thrill of trying not to get killed at level 1. But one can always go back to 3.X for a quick level 1 session if I get the itch. In a way yes, it would have been ideal if 4E started with some complete newbie levels. It wasn't really a problem in older editions anyway. Just start at level 3 or 4. It may be truer to say that every group's D&D is different. And that much of the hostility against 4E is whenever the designers announce something that is seen as moving away from "their" D&D. [/QUOTE]
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Where the break between pro and anti 4e is
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