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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Where the break between pro and anti 4e is
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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 4094852" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>I pretty much like everything in that first post. It's a little weird that they're abandoning all the old setting material, but I don't particularly care. Everything else is either a good idea, or probably a good idea. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>My two issues:</p><p></p><p><strong>Improper Siloing</strong>. Telling a player they can't do something they should, logically, be able to do simply because of the weird way powers work is not an experience I will ever subject myself to. This includes trip being per-encounter, monsters not being able to be allied, rogues being the only creatures who can finesse weapons, and 1-1-1 diagonals. Even the 'incomplete' status of the rules can be attributed to this. </p><p></p><p>This can be broadened to be a problem of myopic focus. By failing to embrace a variety of different approaches, they may have made the game too narrow. There are a few simple ways to avoid this that they may have already done, and just haven't really bragged about yet. The skill system, for instance, put to rest my concerns about the myopic combat focus largely.</p><p></p><p><strong>Minis Focus</strong>. I don't use minis. I don't WANT to use minis. I don't want to have a map, little markers, or any of that gobbledgook. It complicates my games. I want simple games. Rules for little plastic men I don't want. While I can accept a certain level of it, if 4e has reached the point where minis are required to play, because of the mass of complicated movements, shifts, slides, and tactical postitioning strategies it encourages, it has gone past the breaking point for me.</p><p></p><p>Again, this is something that can probably be easily fixed, and they may already have fixed it, and just haven't presented it yet. </p><p></p><p>I'm pretty confident these guys can deliver, I'm just concerned that I'm no longer considered a valid player for the game because of my preferences.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 4094852, member: 2067"] I pretty much like everything in that first post. It's a little weird that they're abandoning all the old setting material, but I don't particularly care. Everything else is either a good idea, or probably a good idea. ;) My two issues: [B]Improper Siloing[/B]. Telling a player they can't do something they should, logically, be able to do simply because of the weird way powers work is not an experience I will ever subject myself to. This includes trip being per-encounter, monsters not being able to be allied, rogues being the only creatures who can finesse weapons, and 1-1-1 diagonals. Even the 'incomplete' status of the rules can be attributed to this. This can be broadened to be a problem of myopic focus. By failing to embrace a variety of different approaches, they may have made the game too narrow. There are a few simple ways to avoid this that they may have already done, and just haven't really bragged about yet. The skill system, for instance, put to rest my concerns about the myopic combat focus largely. [B]Minis Focus[/B]. I don't use minis. I don't WANT to use minis. I don't want to have a map, little markers, or any of that gobbledgook. It complicates my games. I want simple games. Rules for little plastic men I don't want. While I can accept a certain level of it, if 4e has reached the point where minis are required to play, because of the mass of complicated movements, shifts, slides, and tactical postitioning strategies it encourages, it has gone past the breaking point for me. Again, this is something that can probably be easily fixed, and they may already have fixed it, and just haven't presented it yet. I'm pretty confident these guys can deliver, I'm just concerned that I'm no longer considered a valid player for the game because of my preferences. [/QUOTE]
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