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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Where the break between pro and anti 4e is
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<blockquote data-quote="Pierson_Lowgal" data-source="post: 4096236" data-attributes="member: 34367"><p>I thought I'd take a shot at the original post, giving my view of the common complaints. I've been playing D&D since 1993 or 1994, playing plenty of 2nd, 3.0 and 3.5. I am very excited about 4th edition.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I love the Great Wheel cosmology, but I think I'll be able to adapt it easily, and I heard or read an interview with a designer in which the designer stated it wouldn't be that bad. Greater differentiation of demon and devils is a good thing IMO, and the feywild seems a good idea too.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The current game I'm running only has humans as a 'civilized' race. How can the inclusion of two new races be a dealbreaker? Just do what you want.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Lucky me I have no use for gnomes.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't see 4th and 3.5 different in this regard. 3.5 implies minis and maps pretty strongly. Even if the rules imply lots of combat, how can they actively diminish roleplaying at your table?</p><p></p><p></p><p>I see this complaint as valid. I just hold an opposing viewpoint about what is most fun at the table.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Vancian magic stinks, people have been replacing it with spellpoints for a decade. I've read that the audience at Gencon cheered when it was revealed that vancian was mostly out. Without extensive personal playtesting, how can someone claim that characters will be invincible? D&D is supposed to be heroic fantasy, if you prefer a more gritty or more simulationist approach, why not play another game?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Isn't this a good thing? As a roleplayer, I don't want to have the character I've lovingly poured my creative energies into killed at first level anyways.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I understand this point. On the other hand, by flattening the power curve, a wider number of kinds of combats are possible than in 3.5 where only CR's very close to PC level produced viable combats. Also, by making first level characters better, I can play characters with more elaborate backstories than before. A first level character in 2nd or 3rd edition had to be a young kid with no experience, because anyone with any experience would be more talented.</p><p></p><p>I just hope people don't get scared off of 4th edition because of someone else's complaints. I'm excited about more action driven combat, a larger sweet spot, every class having cool stuff to do, clerics not stuck in healer mode, wizards who can do little tricks at will, viable ranged-combat classes in core, fewer magic items, no more save or sit, and a lot of the other stuff they've shown us.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Pierson_Lowgal, post: 4096236, member: 34367"] I thought I'd take a shot at the original post, giving my view of the common complaints. I've been playing D&D since 1993 or 1994, playing plenty of 2nd, 3.0 and 3.5. I am very excited about 4th edition. I love the Great Wheel cosmology, but I think I'll be able to adapt it easily, and I heard or read an interview with a designer in which the designer stated it wouldn't be that bad. Greater differentiation of demon and devils is a good thing IMO, and the feywild seems a good idea too. The current game I'm running only has humans as a 'civilized' race. How can the inclusion of two new races be a dealbreaker? Just do what you want. Lucky me I have no use for gnomes. I don't see 4th and 3.5 different in this regard. 3.5 implies minis and maps pretty strongly. Even if the rules imply lots of combat, how can they actively diminish roleplaying at your table? I see this complaint as valid. I just hold an opposing viewpoint about what is most fun at the table. Vancian magic stinks, people have been replacing it with spellpoints for a decade. I've read that the audience at Gencon cheered when it was revealed that vancian was mostly out. Without extensive personal playtesting, how can someone claim that characters will be invincible? D&D is supposed to be heroic fantasy, if you prefer a more gritty or more simulationist approach, why not play another game? Isn't this a good thing? As a roleplayer, I don't want to have the character I've lovingly poured my creative energies into killed at first level anyways. I understand this point. On the other hand, by flattening the power curve, a wider number of kinds of combats are possible than in 3.5 where only CR's very close to PC level produced viable combats. Also, by making first level characters better, I can play characters with more elaborate backstories than before. A first level character in 2nd or 3rd edition had to be a young kid with no experience, because anyone with any experience would be more talented. I just hope people don't get scared off of 4th edition because of someone else's complaints. I'm excited about more action driven combat, a larger sweet spot, every class having cool stuff to do, clerics not stuck in healer mode, wizards who can do little tricks at will, viable ranged-combat classes in core, fewer magic items, no more save or sit, and a lot of the other stuff they've shown us. [/QUOTE]
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