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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Where was 4e headed before it was canned?
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7645116" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>4e is definitely more open-ended in some sense. OTOH 5e isn't exactly a straight-jacket either! Particularly if MCing is allowed then it has a very large degree of flexibility. I agree that the lack of an A/E/D/U structure is inhibiting in the sense that something like the Champion is very locked down and can't get choices beyond a narrow range. Again, you could play a fighter/wizard or an Eldritch Knight, Paladin, Ranger, etc and get different variations on that. Yes, spell casting is absolutely the choice set of options in 5e, and I am not trying to defend that.</p><p></p><p>I'm only saying that the game is VERY amenable to playing with a pretty simply 'canned' set of options and getting a sort of character of a simple archetype.</p><p></p><p>Again, think of 'Axe dwarf'. In 5e you pick dwarf, get an axe, pick a fighting style of 'great weapon' and choose either BattleMaster or Champion. That's pretty much it. You can make no other choices, period, all the way to level 20 and it 'just works'. Your ability scores, equipment, and proficiency choices are fairly obvious and/or give you a bit of personalization leeway. You COULD pick feats, but you can just ignore that (or it can even be left out as an optional rule). Background and personality traits are pretty much 'color'. </p><p></p><p>In 4e you would pick dwarf and fighter, then great weapon style, and then several feats (out of 100's of choices you should pick only a few certain ones to focus on this, but you have to read a lot of them to know which are the ones). Now you have to make several power choices, and you still have skills, background, and maybe theme to consider, which can each have some material impact later on. Your ability score choices are also fairly significant and there is some nuance there (WIS vs CON for instance).</p><p></p><p>The BIG difference though is ongoing. 5e you have no more choices required, except maybe to pick some techniques or whatever they call them. In 4e you have constantly pick feats, powers, ASIs, then a PP and an ED if you go that high, etc. You also have to figure out your build WRT magic items, which is pretty important. STAYING an effective axe dwarf is not 100% straightforward. It takes actual real engagement with the rules and paying attention, you CANNOT simply let it ride! If you do, then you'll end up with an inferior combat ability and won't fill your desired archetype well in play!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 7645116, member: 82106"] 4e is definitely more open-ended in some sense. OTOH 5e isn't exactly a straight-jacket either! Particularly if MCing is allowed then it has a very large degree of flexibility. I agree that the lack of an A/E/D/U structure is inhibiting in the sense that something like the Champion is very locked down and can't get choices beyond a narrow range. Again, you could play a fighter/wizard or an Eldritch Knight, Paladin, Ranger, etc and get different variations on that. Yes, spell casting is absolutely the choice set of options in 5e, and I am not trying to defend that. I'm only saying that the game is VERY amenable to playing with a pretty simply 'canned' set of options and getting a sort of character of a simple archetype. Again, think of 'Axe dwarf'. In 5e you pick dwarf, get an axe, pick a fighting style of 'great weapon' and choose either BattleMaster or Champion. That's pretty much it. You can make no other choices, period, all the way to level 20 and it 'just works'. Your ability scores, equipment, and proficiency choices are fairly obvious and/or give you a bit of personalization leeway. You COULD pick feats, but you can just ignore that (or it can even be left out as an optional rule). Background and personality traits are pretty much 'color'. In 4e you would pick dwarf and fighter, then great weapon style, and then several feats (out of 100's of choices you should pick only a few certain ones to focus on this, but you have to read a lot of them to know which are the ones). Now you have to make several power choices, and you still have skills, background, and maybe theme to consider, which can each have some material impact later on. Your ability score choices are also fairly significant and there is some nuance there (WIS vs CON for instance). The BIG difference though is ongoing. 5e you have no more choices required, except maybe to pick some techniques or whatever they call them. In 4e you have constantly pick feats, powers, ASIs, then a PP and an ED if you go that high, etc. You also have to figure out your build WRT magic items, which is pretty important. STAYING an effective axe dwarf is not 100% straightforward. It takes actual real engagement with the rules and paying attention, you CANNOT simply let it ride! If you do, then you'll end up with an inferior combat ability and won't fill your desired archetype well in play! [/QUOTE]
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