Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Where was 4e headed before it was canned?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7645133" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>I'm not 'pretending'. You don't have to 'optimize' to the level of putting together weird and obtuse combinations of elements (there are possibilities there for certain builds, but not required), unlike 3.x. However, your character will start to really underperform the expected baseline 4e character combat performance by high heroic tier. This might not matter in some games (where everyone plays basically the same way or you just don't care) but modules and general encounter guidelines DO assume your PC puts out a DPR that reaches some general median performance, or at least close. Even my "I don't want to understand the rules" players in our 4e campaigns began to realize at a certain point that they were leaving a LOT on the table, and they got one of the other players (in one campaign) that had DDI and some good grasp of the mechanics to help them out with retraining and whatever. This was by around 6th level.</p><p></p><p>Honestly, I am no expert on ANY of 5e in terms of finer details, like how MCing stacks up exactly. I know it is there. I know you can play an Eldritch Knight, which seemed fairly effective and 'spell casty with a sword'. Heck, my dwarf Transmuter was actually pretty competent in melee! He wouldn't really ever DO that because cantrips, but he had chain armor and a pretty decent hit point total. He sure wasn't afraid to go to the front line and blast stuff face-to-face. As to exactly reproducing 4e swordmage (IE magic delivered in melee with a sword and acting as a type of defender with a high inherent AC and some funky special ability) I couldn't say. My guess is that there are plenty of people with a looser idea of what 'swordmage' means who would be happy, but not all.</p><p></p><p>5e does cover a lot of thematic territory. Not with the granularity that 4e does, at least not without added material, but it has the virtue that MOST PLAYERS will be able to work its 'levers' easily and get something acceptable to them. My guess is 95% of all D&D players are not after an exact character concept to the T. They are after something fun to play, and if they can find it within the given options and within their comfort level of rules mastery, they are happy. 5e has a much higher probability of success in that area, and this most likely accounts for the vast bulk of its increased popularity vis-a-vis 4e, IMHO.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 7645133, member: 82106"] I'm not 'pretending'. You don't have to 'optimize' to the level of putting together weird and obtuse combinations of elements (there are possibilities there for certain builds, but not required), unlike 3.x. However, your character will start to really underperform the expected baseline 4e character combat performance by high heroic tier. This might not matter in some games (where everyone plays basically the same way or you just don't care) but modules and general encounter guidelines DO assume your PC puts out a DPR that reaches some general median performance, or at least close. Even my "I don't want to understand the rules" players in our 4e campaigns began to realize at a certain point that they were leaving a LOT on the table, and they got one of the other players (in one campaign) that had DDI and some good grasp of the mechanics to help them out with retraining and whatever. This was by around 6th level. Honestly, I am no expert on ANY of 5e in terms of finer details, like how MCing stacks up exactly. I know it is there. I know you can play an Eldritch Knight, which seemed fairly effective and 'spell casty with a sword'. Heck, my dwarf Transmuter was actually pretty competent in melee! He wouldn't really ever DO that because cantrips, but he had chain armor and a pretty decent hit point total. He sure wasn't afraid to go to the front line and blast stuff face-to-face. As to exactly reproducing 4e swordmage (IE magic delivered in melee with a sword and acting as a type of defender with a high inherent AC and some funky special ability) I couldn't say. My guess is that there are plenty of people with a looser idea of what 'swordmage' means who would be happy, but not all. 5e does cover a lot of thematic territory. Not with the granularity that 4e does, at least not without added material, but it has the virtue that MOST PLAYERS will be able to work its 'levers' easily and get something acceptable to them. My guess is 95% of all D&D players are not after an exact character concept to the T. They are after something fun to play, and if they can find it within the given options and within their comfort level of rules mastery, they are happy. 5e has a much higher probability of success in that area, and this most likely accounts for the vast bulk of its increased popularity vis-a-vis 4e, IMHO. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Where was 4e headed before it was canned?
Top