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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Where was 4e headed before it was canned?
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7646530" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Again, lets go back to the origins of D&D. Class is a bit confused in terms of if it is meant to be a broad concept (fighter) or a very specific type cast (Paladin or Assassin). In practice classic D&D tended to (officially or tacitly depending on exact version) work with 4 'base classes' (2e calling them warrior, rogue, wizard, and priest) and then potentially very numerous subclasses. Since there wasn't much like options you could pick post-rollup in most cases (aside from spell list and equipment) if you wanted some different concept, you needed a new class.</p><p></p><p>You can see how this was handled in the early days. LBBs + Greyhawk supplied the core 4, plus a few specials, and then The Dragon and other publications provided variations you could use or adapt to produce more specialist (sub) classes. </p><p></p><p>So, originally classes were BOTH broad starting points AND narrow pre-defined concepts. You got to choose one or the other, and then it was expected the character would change and evolve with 'lived experience' (which was generally a much more significant thing in early play).</p><p></p><p>4e was interesting in the sense that its dense grid of options meant that lived experience could be subsumed within the system. That is you could simply use the build rules to basically reflect the things that happened to your character or that he accomplished. In some sense it is a complete realization of this early scheme. </p><p></p><p>Notice, when I designed my own game I took this to the logical extreme. There is a dense 4e like set of options, but you literally always acquire them through narrative play, there is no advancement as a separate concept where you pick things. ALL of your character is acquired through acquisition of stuff/experience/revelation. It is the whole essence of the class concept, welded with treasure/experience/items into a seamless and highly directed whole.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 7646530, member: 82106"] Again, lets go back to the origins of D&D. Class is a bit confused in terms of if it is meant to be a broad concept (fighter) or a very specific type cast (Paladin or Assassin). In practice classic D&D tended to (officially or tacitly depending on exact version) work with 4 'base classes' (2e calling them warrior, rogue, wizard, and priest) and then potentially very numerous subclasses. Since there wasn't much like options you could pick post-rollup in most cases (aside from spell list and equipment) if you wanted some different concept, you needed a new class. You can see how this was handled in the early days. LBBs + Greyhawk supplied the core 4, plus a few specials, and then The Dragon and other publications provided variations you could use or adapt to produce more specialist (sub) classes. So, originally classes were BOTH broad starting points AND narrow pre-defined concepts. You got to choose one or the other, and then it was expected the character would change and evolve with 'lived experience' (which was generally a much more significant thing in early play). 4e was interesting in the sense that its dense grid of options meant that lived experience could be subsumed within the system. That is you could simply use the build rules to basically reflect the things that happened to your character or that he accomplished. In some sense it is a complete realization of this early scheme. Notice, when I designed my own game I took this to the logical extreme. There is a dense 4e like set of options, but you literally always acquire them through narrative play, there is no advancement as a separate concept where you pick things. ALL of your character is acquired through acquisition of stuff/experience/revelation. It is the whole essence of the class concept, welded with treasure/experience/items into a seamless and highly directed whole. [/QUOTE]
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