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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Where was 4e headed before it was canned?
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<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 7787617" data-attributes="member: 177"><p>Except, in this, it is incomplete. This has been noted several times already, and each time it has been ignored: 5e allows us to have a basic idea of how to succeed.</p><p></p><p>But, 5e does not give us an idea of what the success <em>means</em>, in terms of impact either in terms of the game rules, or the fiction. A player cannot make a well-informed decision on actions to take without knowing both what is required to succeed, and what success actually means.</p><p></p><p>This is where Garthanos' complaints come in, and folks seem to ignore the point - as a player of a non-magical character, he doesn't have much idea of what feats of derring-do he can pull off. Nowhere in the rules are we given decent guidelines for it. Folks seem to try to claim that's a feature ('Cuz that means it if freeform!), but really, what it means is that the player is in the dark, and that's not a good thing.</p><p></p><p>So, we come down to this - 5e may seem freeform when compared to, say, 3e. But that's a low bar. Compared to a game actually designed for freeform play, 5e looks more like a pretty strict system, with some space for GMs to figure it out where there's a gap.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 7787617, member: 177"] Except, in this, it is incomplete. This has been noted several times already, and each time it has been ignored: 5e allows us to have a basic idea of how to succeed. But, 5e does not give us an idea of what the success [I]means[/I], in terms of impact either in terms of the game rules, or the fiction. A player cannot make a well-informed decision on actions to take without knowing both what is required to succeed, and what success actually means. This is where Garthanos' complaints come in, and folks seem to ignore the point - as a player of a non-magical character, he doesn't have much idea of what feats of derring-do he can pull off. Nowhere in the rules are we given decent guidelines for it. Folks seem to try to claim that's a feature ('Cuz that means it if freeform!), but really, what it means is that the player is in the dark, and that's not a good thing. So, we come down to this - 5e may seem freeform when compared to, say, 3e. But that's a low bar. Compared to a game actually designed for freeform play, 5e looks more like a pretty strict system, with some space for GMs to figure it out where there's a gap. [/QUOTE]
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