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Where was 4e headed before it was canned?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7789019" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>You claim that I am not listening to posters who play 5e. I am. And I'm not failing to understand them.</p><p></p><p>One of those posters - one who <em>liked </em>your longer post I've quoted just above - posted the following:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p></p><p>I'm confident that I understand that post. It seems to more-or-less agree with me about the comparative freeform character of 5e and some of the other non-D&D games that have come up in this thread. Do you disagree?</p><p></p><p>That post also references some of the same things that I did in my earlier reply to you. And that poster has already (multiple times) referenced the importance of mechanical resources (eg spell slots) in 5e play. This has been given as a reason why doing <em>X</em> by way of a skill check should be harder than doing it by way of a spell. To the extent that that constitutes a freeform RPG resolution structure, it is one that is highly bounded by lists of game elements (especially spells) and the need to keep track of and appreciate the significance of mechanical resources.</p><p></p><p>You seem to think it's an attack upon 5e D&D to doubt that it is a freeform system. I don't know why.</p><p></p><p>You also seem to think it is very important to point out that some of the more freeform games that are out there are not widely played. I don't know what you think that proves about their freeform character.</p><p></p><p>One of my favourite RPGs is Burning Wheel. It's not freeform. (Nor is it all that widely played.) Another is Classic Traveller. It's not freeform either. (It was once very widely played. It is no longer all that widely played.) I say this about both games despite the fact that, from time to time, they rely on the GM to set difficulties and adjudicate consequences. That doesn't make either a worse RPG than Prince Valiant. Being freeform is a feature of some RPGs, but I don't see that it is especially a virtue. (Or a flaw.)</p><p></p><p>And I reiterate that the claim that a game which has hundreds of pages of stat blocks, rule elements like spells and items, definitions for dozens of classes and sub-classes, etc should nevertheless be considered a primarily freeform RPG is one that I find hard to credit.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7789019, member: 42582"] You claim that I am not listening to posters who play 5e. I am. And I'm not failing to understand them. One of those posters - one who [I]liked [/I]your longer post I've quoted just above - posted the following: [indent][/indent] I'm confident that I understand that post. It seems to more-or-less agree with me about the comparative freeform character of 5e and some of the other non-D&D games that have come up in this thread. Do you disagree? That post also references some of the same things that I did in my earlier reply to you. And that poster has already (multiple times) referenced the importance of mechanical resources (eg spell slots) in 5e play. This has been given as a reason why doing [I]X[/I] by way of a skill check should be harder than doing it by way of a spell. To the extent that that constitutes a freeform RPG resolution structure, it is one that is highly bounded by lists of game elements (especially spells) and the need to keep track of and appreciate the significance of mechanical resources. You seem to think it's an attack upon 5e D&D to doubt that it is a freeform system. I don't know why. You also seem to think it is very important to point out that some of the more freeform games that are out there are not widely played. I don't know what you think that proves about their freeform character. One of my favourite RPGs is Burning Wheel. It's not freeform. (Nor is it all that widely played.) Another is Classic Traveller. It's not freeform either. (It was once very widely played. It is no longer all that widely played.) I say this about both games despite the fact that, from time to time, they rely on the GM to set difficulties and adjudicate consequences. That doesn't make either a worse RPG than Prince Valiant. Being freeform is a feature of some RPGs, but I don't see that it is especially a virtue. (Or a flaw.) And I reiterate that the claim that a game which has hundreds of pages of stat blocks, rule elements like spells and items, definitions for dozens of classes and sub-classes, etc should nevertheless be considered a primarily freeform RPG is one that I find hard to credit. [/QUOTE]
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