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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Where was 4e headed before it was canned?
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<blockquote data-quote="Ratskinner" data-source="post: 7789287" data-attributes="member: 6688937"><p>That is all the necessary resemblance. Judgements will differ. Thus, it will be similar in that some GMs will (effectively) set some odds of success/or difficulty to more or less open interpretations. I've seen very little in the way of semi-traditional rpg games that have what I consider "freeform" mechanics that don't require such judgements. The closest I'm aware of is Capes, but its hardly traditional. The biggest difference I see (despite their proponents objections) between most of these systems is the advice given to GMs as to how liberal they should be in interpreting such things.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't see 5e as particularly freeform to my way of thinking. What it does allow is flexibility in what exactly a skill check might mean or how to set such difficulties. The need to maintain that relationship between mundane and magical allows the DM to bend the game towards the "gonzo action" of 4e or the "gritty realism" of GoT (regardless of how one views the accuracy or attitude of those descriptors.) I've seen this happen in my own group. Three of us have DMed 5e and each game had its own feel, in part because of this flexibility. (You actually get more dimensions of flexibility, because different skill areas can be adjudicated differently.)</p><p></p><p>To address some of the other points (all IMO/IME): the integrity of the resource system is not really all that important to defend. The narrative difference between the skill check effects and a spell seem plenty sufficient. At least my players would find the level-creeping difficulty of 4e less verisimilitudinous (is that a word?) than constantly negotiating the DCs of 5e (then again, I preferred a little more action in that campaign, so I don't think I set a DC above 20.) I'm not certain of it, but I think it has to do with 5e's bounded accuracy and some of the other design decisions. The system takes a lot, and I mean a lot more, to "break" in the way that 3e did. (Although it still certainly has a few issues here and there.)</p><p></p><p>But this, I think is where the meaning of "freeform" has been fuzzy. I wouldn't call 5e's flexibility this way as "freeform". I also wouldn't call 4e particularly freeform, either. There may be differences (to my eyes minor) in the freedom to perform or try different actions, but both systems are fairly...static? Defined? </p><p></p><p>As a D&D-like counter-example to what I would mean by freeform, I would point to 13th Age. Your "skills" and One Unique Thing, are wide open. For the "buddy falling off a cliff" situation, we all know that some kind of Athletics or Acrobatics check will be involved. Not so with 13th Age.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ratskinner, post: 7789287, member: 6688937"] That is all the necessary resemblance. Judgements will differ. Thus, it will be similar in that some GMs will (effectively) set some odds of success/or difficulty to more or less open interpretations. I've seen very little in the way of semi-traditional rpg games that have what I consider "freeform" mechanics that don't require such judgements. The closest I'm aware of is Capes, but its hardly traditional. The biggest difference I see (despite their proponents objections) between most of these systems is the advice given to GMs as to how liberal they should be in interpreting such things. I don't see 5e as particularly freeform to my way of thinking. What it does allow is flexibility in what exactly a skill check might mean or how to set such difficulties. The need to maintain that relationship between mundane and magical allows the DM to bend the game towards the "gonzo action" of 4e or the "gritty realism" of GoT (regardless of how one views the accuracy or attitude of those descriptors.) I've seen this happen in my own group. Three of us have DMed 5e and each game had its own feel, in part because of this flexibility. (You actually get more dimensions of flexibility, because different skill areas can be adjudicated differently.) To address some of the other points (all IMO/IME): the integrity of the resource system is not really all that important to defend. The narrative difference between the skill check effects and a spell seem plenty sufficient. At least my players would find the level-creeping difficulty of 4e less verisimilitudinous (is that a word?) than constantly negotiating the DCs of 5e (then again, I preferred a little more action in that campaign, so I don't think I set a DC above 20.) I'm not certain of it, but I think it has to do with 5e's bounded accuracy and some of the other design decisions. The system takes a lot, and I mean a lot more, to "break" in the way that 3e did. (Although it still certainly has a few issues here and there.) But this, I think is where the meaning of "freeform" has been fuzzy. I wouldn't call 5e's flexibility this way as "freeform". I also wouldn't call 4e particularly freeform, either. There may be differences (to my eyes minor) in the freedom to perform or try different actions, but both systems are fairly...static? Defined? As a D&D-like counter-example to what I would mean by freeform, I would point to 13th Age. Your "skills" and One Unique Thing, are wide open. For the "buddy falling off a cliff" situation, we all know that some kind of Athletics or Acrobatics check will be involved. Not so with 13th Age. [/QUOTE]
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