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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Where was 4e headed before it was canned?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7790522" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>Your example was of an amphibious character holding his/her breath.</p><p></p><p>What about a particularly agile PC skilled at climbing (eg a 3rd level thief with the Second Story Work ability). If the task is <em>get to the top of the Cliffs of Insanity before dawn</em> then does the DC change for that character compared to another character who lacks that ability? Or grant advantage (which is functionally comparable to, if not strictly mathematically equivalent to, a DC change across a fairly wide range of DCs).</p><p></p><p>In deciding that something is Impossible or Very Hard or whatever you seem to be factoring in relevant PC capabilities (at least, ones that are not already expressed as skill/stat check bonuses). It's not clear to me why the amphibiousness would count but the climbing ability wouldn't. But if it would then we have DC being set by reference to a particular PC.</p><p></p><p>This sort of thing is fairly common across a range of RPGs. It's not objectionable. But to me it doesn't suggest a freeform approach to resolution.</p><p></p><p>I'd contrast with, say, a HeroQuest revised PC who has the descriptor Amphibious or Second Story Work. In that system there is the relatively freeform adjudication <em>is this declared action feasible given this PCs capabilities in the fiction?</em>, and then there is the system-dictated (based on pacing considerations) setting of a DC. There's no need in HeroQuest revised to factor in all the sub-systems that bear upon what can be achieved with a stat/skill check (like being amphibious or being skilled a second story work) but that aren't already expressed in the stat/skill itself.</p><p></p><p>Hey, I'm not the one arguing that 5e is uniquely or distinctively freeform in contrast to its very close cousin (skill/stat check-wise) 4e.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7790522, member: 42582"] Your example was of an amphibious character holding his/her breath. What about a particularly agile PC skilled at climbing (eg a 3rd level thief with the Second Story Work ability). If the task is [I]get to the top of the Cliffs of Insanity before dawn[/I] then does the DC change for that character compared to another character who lacks that ability? Or grant advantage (which is functionally comparable to, if not strictly mathematically equivalent to, a DC change across a fairly wide range of DCs). In deciding that something is Impossible or Very Hard or whatever you seem to be factoring in relevant PC capabilities (at least, ones that are not already expressed as skill/stat check bonuses). It's not clear to me why the amphibiousness would count but the climbing ability wouldn't. But if it would then we have DC being set by reference to a particular PC. This sort of thing is fairly common across a range of RPGs. It's not objectionable. But to me it doesn't suggest a freeform approach to resolution. I'd contrast with, say, a HeroQuest revised PC who has the descriptor Amphibious or Second Story Work. In that system there is the relatively freeform adjudication [I]is this declared action feasible given this PCs capabilities in the fiction?[/I], and then there is the system-dictated (based on pacing considerations) setting of a DC. There's no need in HeroQuest revised to factor in all the sub-systems that bear upon what can be achieved with a stat/skill check (like being amphibious or being skilled a second story work) but that aren't already expressed in the stat/skill itself. Hey, I'm not the one arguing that 5e is uniquely or distinctively freeform in contrast to its very close cousin (skill/stat check-wise) 4e. [/QUOTE]
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Where was 4e headed before it was canned?
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