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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Where was 4e headed before it was canned?
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 7792260" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>1) The conversation is about “the dearth of conceptual non-combatant space between Heroic Fighters (those who fight Red Dragon Wyrmlings) and Epic Fighters (those who fight Ancient Red Wyrms).”</p><p></p><p>If you want to talk about the bleed between adjacent tiers, we can have a conversation about that. I have a lot to say about that, but that is a different conversation.</p><p></p><p>Can we continue this one for now?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A few things here:</p><p></p><p>Force is “when a GM subordinates a players thematic/tactical/strategic choices to that GM’s own whim/will by manipulating play outcomes (through various techniques).</p><p></p><p>Fiat (as it pertains to TTRPGs) - A GM decree where system is absent/silent or a mode of GMing where system specifically requires a GM to mediate the evolution of the gamestate (both on screen action resolution and off-screen machinery), but does not provide constraining structure.</p><p></p><p>Neither of those things remotely apply to 4e non-combatant conflict resolution.</p><p></p><p>The system is not remotely silent on procedures and techniques, and the GM-side structure and constraint was one of the primary points of contention with the edition (and one of the primary pillars of the “boardgamey epithet”).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 7792260, member: 6696971"] 1) The conversation is about “the dearth of conceptual non-combatant space between Heroic Fighters (those who fight Red Dragon Wyrmlings) and Epic Fighters (those who fight Ancient Red Wyrms).” If you want to talk about the bleed between adjacent tiers, we can have a conversation about that. I have a lot to say about that, but that is a different conversation. Can we continue this one for now? A few things here: Force is “when a GM subordinates a players thematic/tactical/strategic choices to that GM’s own whim/will by manipulating play outcomes (through various techniques). Fiat (as it pertains to TTRPGs) - A GM decree where system is absent/silent or a mode of GMing where system specifically requires a GM to mediate the evolution of the gamestate (both on screen action resolution and off-screen machinery), but does not provide constraining structure. Neither of those things remotely apply to 4e non-combatant conflict resolution. The system is not remotely silent on procedures and techniques, and the GM-side structure and constraint was one of the primary points of contention with the edition (and one of the primary pillars of the “boardgamey epithet”). [/QUOTE]
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